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Gifted children are special needs children

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Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#21

Post by rKarpinski »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #13

Greetings fellow travelers [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional ---- In response to OP's link, my suggestion to primary schools would be to scrap the G/T programs, and instead focus on reducing class-sizes. You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning. Give those timesinks a broom, instead.

You basically just described what the NYC "G&T" program is. All it is smaller class sizes and less disruptive students.

There are only like 4 actual accelerated learning programs out of the hundreds in NYC's "G&T".

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#22

Post by blackjack_ »

Simulacra wrote: post #5
Y_Y wrote: post #3

But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used. Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. It's much better in the sense, that if they will survive and probably not even cause a fuss if you treat them like the lowest common denominator. It's worse in the sense that you're unlikely to get a strong signal, but without special tr…

Good, clean, healthy food cost a lot of money. It cost more to buy a container of spinach, than it does to make cheeseburger macaroni. It cost more to buy products like Amy's, which supposedly have less highly processed ingredients, than it is to buy a can of Progresso. You're not wrong, but the healthy food companies are maximizing their profit, and riding on the healthy label and should be seen as contributing to t…

This is somewhat for a dumb reason, which is that we heavily subsidize meat and dairy in this country (and especially beef). We could move those subsidies to healthier and more environmentally friendly foods, like fruit and vegetables, and their prices would drop down heavily and more people could also afford them.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#23

Post by eigencoder »

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

I think you may misunderstand what a gifted kindergartener is. Like, some kids come in and they essentially taught themselves to read. That doesn't mean they have helicopter parents who think they're extra special -- it means they have distinct needs that aren't well served in the normal classroom, which is boring for them.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#24

Post by forgotoldacc »

teiferer wrote: post #16
surfmike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Kindergarten were just play based schooling then I’d agree with you. But there is an academic component, for example learning to read, and students abilities can be radically different.

You don't need kindergarten to teach reading. Mine didn't and I did fine. (Obtained a Ph.D. degree later in life.)

My parents taught me diddly squat, so I was glad my kindergarten teacher taught me how to read. That's half the reason kids are in kindergarten.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#25

Post by energy123 »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #13

Greetings fellow travelers [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional ---- In response to OP's link, my suggestion to primary schools would be to scrap the G/T programs, and instead focus on reducing class-sizes. You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning. Give those timesinks a broom, instead.

Why does scrapping G/T programs have anything to do with reducing class sizes? You can do both at the same time, there is no reason to believe they are competing ideas.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#26

Post by beepbooptheory »

Doesn't this all kind of hinge on the idea that these programs indeed serve these kids? Maybe things are different now, but growing up in public school, GT was kind of seen as a joke and ultimately arbritrary. I think I lost my chance to get in because of my lack of cursive skills. We would compare assignments and laugh at the sameness, sometimes even lesser challenge, of the "gifted" classes. The only thing that really mattered back then was the standardized tests.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#28

Post by Gabriel54 »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #13

Greetings fellow travelers [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional ---- In response to OP's link, my suggestion to primary schools would be to scrap the G/T programs, and instead focus on reducing class-sizes. You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning. Give those timesinks a broom, instead.

> You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning.

A good idea but not practically possible in any district, unfortunately.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#29

Post by liveoneggs »

bko wrote: post #19
munchler wrote: post #15

> the G&T system selects, however imperfectly, for merit and effort. This is true but doesn't answer the fundamental question of whether meritocracy results in a fair, healthy society. I think this is a nuanced issue with reasonable arguments on both sides, but the author simply assumes the answer is yes without actually addressing the question.

I don't know where this extreme egalitarian belief that it's bad to let smart people excel is coming from. How is it not healthy? Even Marxism, an extremely egalitarian system of belief has a phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." People focus on the second part of the phrase, but the first part explicitly states we should strive to work up our individual ability and potential. D…

it comes from valuing "Equity"

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#30

Post by Spooky23 »

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

It's code for not having certain kids in the classroom.

Until the 90s, they'd base G&T admission based on IQ. Now it's based on whether your family can afford a quality Pre-K. They thought my little brother was a savant as he could read on the first day of kindergarten -- my little sister taught him to read. (He is a very smart dude!)

I was in a well-regarded gifted program in the 80s in a NYC public school. The main distinction was that I was essentially trained to interpret short narratives with time incentives in a standardized test setting. It worked out for me through high school, as that skill allows me to coast through tests and blow off most of the work. Reality bit in college, where you were expected to actually read the book. :)

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