Gifted children are special needs children • Hacker News Board

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#11

Post by yunyu » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

Y_Y wrote: post #3

But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used. Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. It's much better in the sense, that if they will survive and probably not even cause a fuss if you treat them like the lowest common denominator. It's worse in the sense that you're unlikely to get a strong signal, but without special tr…

It is better to empower 1 Noam Shazeer or Terence Tao than to prop up 10 million burger flippers.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#12

Post by bko » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:37 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with gifted children, but some kids thrive in and want a challenging environment. Not every kid is "normal" that wants to do "normal children things". Thats kind of the point.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#13

Post by ProllyInfamous » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:39 PM UTC

Greetings fellow travelers [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional

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In response to OP's link, my suggestion to primary schools would be to scrap the G/T programs, and instead focus on reducing class-sizes. You should also remove any students from classrooms whom routinely distract from others' learning. Give those timesinks a broom, instead.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#14

Post by Supermancho » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:40 PM UTC

Y_Y wrote: post #3

But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used. Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. It's much better in the sense, that if they will survive and probably not even cause a fuss if you treat them like the lowest common denominator. It's worse in the sense that you're unlikely to get a strong signal, but without special tr…

> But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used.

The novelty of applying the label differently, is refreshing to me.

> Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do.

Need is being used subjectively here, but this is effectively a repeated sentiment.

As a gifted child, I was stunted by both public school and family (my father has literally apologized to me). It took me until my 20s to start my career, which was delayed by at least a half-decade. I am willing to consider that a different approach is worth trying, to achieve a different result. Maybe this will result in a better system and I think it's worth the benefit of the doubt.

It is certainly an alternative to other approaches that are popular in some areas, like banning books that mention trans individuals.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#15

Post by munchler » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

> the G&T system selects, however imperfectly, for merit and effort.

This is true but doesn't answer the fundamental question of whether meritocracy results in a fair, healthy society. I think this is a nuanced issue with reasonable arguments on both sides, but the author simply assumes the answer is yes without actually addressing the question.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#16

Post by teiferer » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #10

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

If Kindergarten were just play based schooling then I’d agree with you. But there is an academic component, for example learning to read, and students abilities can be radically different.

You don't need kindergarten to teach reading. Mine didn't and I did fine. (Obtained a Ph.D. degree later in life.)

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#17

Post by tokai » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #10

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

If Kindergarten were just play based schooling then I’d agree with you. But there is an academic component, for example learning to read, and students abilities can be radically different.

There really shouldn't be any academic component. It doesn't help any outcomes.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#18

Post by encoderer » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

It’s equally crazy to me that we are spending time and money to eliminate opportunities for our kids. My school district in SFBA has done the same thing to their gifted program.

If this is really about equality then we would be strengthening these programs because gifted kids from wealthy families will continue to have access to accelerated education. It’s the poor and middle class who are losing out.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#19

Post by bko » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

munchler wrote: post #15

> the G&T system selects, however imperfectly, for merit and effort. This is true but doesn't answer the fundamental question of whether meritocracy results in a fair, healthy society. I think this is a nuanced issue with reasonable arguments on both sides, but the author simply assumes the answer is yes without actually addressing the question.

I don't know where this extreme egalitarian belief that it's bad to let smart people excel is coming from. How is it not healthy? Even Marxism, an extremely egalitarian system of belief has a phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

People focus on the second part of the phrase, but the first part explicitly states we should strive to work up our individual ability and potential. Denying that is an entirely new concept that likely never existed prior to the last 50 years or so.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#20

Post by sickofparadox » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 2:48 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

Because getting rid of the first on ramp is how you get rid of the entire system, year by year rolling it up until the whole thing is gone.