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Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

animebythenumbers.substack.com

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Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#161

Post by riffruff24 »

chii wrote: post #94
bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

> The level of customer delight (and hate) in the anime industry is like no other. except that it doesn't show up as revenue. That's where the problem is - people would obviously prefer to have elite tier subs, but not be willing to pay elite tier prices for it.

it does show up. Just like star wars, the toys and figurines and sometimes it even spread into the VAs, authors and other artists adjacent to the projects.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#163

Post by renewiltord »

Oh that's interesting. I've subscribed and unsubscribed to Crunchyroll more than once on my TV when I try to watch something and then it seems to have garbage subtitles. Sadly, I keep forgetting and clicking on them in Prime Video.

I definitely wish we were back in the era of "keikaku means plan".

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#164

Post by thaumasiotes »

bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

Viki is a platform to watch Asian TV with subtitles in various languages. Their policy on subtitles is, users are free to provide subtitles. Viki won't provide any itself. Their obligation begins and ends with making the video file available.

Each show is subtitled by a team of volunteers. (Generally one team per sub language.)

I watched 大江大河 ("Like a Flowing River"; the English name seems to have no particular relation to the Chinese name) on Viki. But between that series and the sequel (大江大河2), Viki lost the license to stream it.

So now both series are on YouTube, provided by some other party. Viki's subtitles are permissively licensed, so season 1 is up there still using the Viki subtitles.

Viki never got to show season 2, and the new publisher had to provide those subtitles itself. Unfortunately, they tend to be unintelligible gibberish. I was eventually able to watch season 2 after I found a set of fansubs on reddit.

I've noticed that Netflix and Amazon Prime now offer Korean dramas, and it made me wonder if that had something to do with Viki's struggles. But this wasn't even a Korean show.

On the topic of crunchyroll, they could fix their subtitle problems while spending less money by just moving to Viki's system.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#165

Post by Tor3 »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #46
zdw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crunchyroll strangely lacks Japanese subs, which seems strange as Netflix, Amazon Prime, and most others have them in addition to all the translations.

Japanese people as a whole never watch content with proper subtitles. And the subtitles that do exist in Japan for Japanese content are universally awful. It seems only foreign companies that promote being accessible have them. Unext, a Japanese company, never offers subs on Japanese content. It only have subtitles for foreign content... but it only offers subtitles if you're not watching Japanese dubs. It never, und…

I'm only familiar with Japanese TV.. there, subtitles work. They're actually CC, very close to the speech. My wife fiddled with the TV for a while until she got it working (always a bit of black magic there), and since then there's always been subtitles matching the speech. Pretty well too, as far as I can tell.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#166

Post by thaumasiotes »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #125
programjames wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the take is: If 100k people watch the episode, spending $200 more for higher quality subtitling comes out to... a whopping 0.2 cents per person (per episode). Let's just say that would cost an extra $1/month per person. Are they price sensitive enough that they won't go to a competitor that's a few dollars more expensive per month if it has better subtitles? I don't know, but maybe some manager believed they…

Why is the $1 added to the subscription cost? They don't redo the subs every month. It's developing subs once and then enjoy the benefits forever. It should be a cost that's amortized over something.

Well, it's not completely crazy. They don't redo the subs for an old show every month. But they do create new subs for new shows every month. They have constant, ongoing costs of subtitle development, and if they permanently increase those costs, they will be spending additional money (compared to the alternative) every month forever.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#167

Post by Tor3 »

jeron wrote: post #140
varenc wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they price sensitive enough that they won't go to a competitor that's a few dollars more expensive per month if it has better subtitles Outside of Asia, Crunchyroll is a de-facto monopoly on legal anime. From the article, 70% of new releases are exclusive to Crunchyroll. They're not losing customers to platforms with better subs, because customers have no alternative. (Besides pirating, but I assume the golden…

I was going to ask, crunchyroll has competitors for legal anime stremaing?

At least in Europe, if CR has licensed a show or a season, then nobody else can license the same show or season. There's always exactly one place to watch one particular show or season. So, no competition - licensing goes to one, and only one place. Likewise, if Netflix has licensed something then CR isn't getting that license (e.g. Komi Can't Communicate - it's on Netflix, therefore not available on CR)

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#168

Post by throwaway92rw »

torben-friis wrote: post #49
onoesworkacct wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many customers watch each episode of popular shows? 100k+? And we're talking a difference of ~7 hours of labor. $200 difference at most?

That person would need, besides basic computer fluency for the timestamps, knowledge of Japanese and English. Not unheard of, but probably harder than hiring for a call center, and more need to prevent high rotation due to difficulty in finding replacements. Edit: not that I disagree with your general idea, just pointing out potential issues.

Wouldn't it be easier to just hire someone in Japan who knows English? Im sure they could find someone willing to work remotely.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#169

Post by Tor3 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #68
theogravity wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought would be consistency in localization / typesetting. Groups have their own ways of localizing and typesetting content and most likely would not want to share their style guide when they lost out on something they recently translated to a lower bidder.

Isn't it the same issue when a localization team/member with its distinct style decides to get off the train and the next contractor can't replicate it ?

That appears to happen sometimes in the middle of Crunchyroll seasons. Suddenly the translations change. Spelling of names, other things. Jarring.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#170

Post by Erikun »

Tor3 wrote: post #167
jeron wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to ask, crunchyroll has competitors for legal anime stremaing?

At least in Europe, if CR has licensed a show or a season, then nobody else can license the same show or season. There's always exactly one place to watch one particular show or season. So, no competition - licensing goes to one, and only one place. Likewise, if Netflix has licensed something then CR isn't getting that license (e.g. Komi Can't Communicate - it's on Netflix, therefore not available on CR)

This may be true for current seasons but previous seasons and finished series are often available on other services. At least crunchyroll and Netflix have an overlap (in Sweden). Frieren is available on both as an example.
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