Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

731–740 of 1001 posts

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#731

Post by YZF »

KumaBear wrote: post #654
YZF wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would you do if you're Israel? Suck it up? Leave the hostages to rot in Gaza? Wait until the next coordinated attack from Iran, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza? Israel's enemies want it destroyed- that's what's at stake here. If Hamas had a chance it would keep going and murder all Israelis, not just the ones they managed to before they were repelled. What sort of adaptation are you proposing? I do agr…

So criticism is hate? I'm Jewish does that mean I am hateful when I am critical of the actions of the Israeli government? Are you claiming none of the critism is legitimate and its all hate? Is criticism of Israel antisemetic? Because last I checked Israel is not a religion.

[flagged]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#732

Post by beloch »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

Some have described what we're seeing as an impassioned overreaction to Hamas' initial strike and kidnappings. However, Netanyahu's actions appear far more deliberate. Rhetoric from his own cabinet ministers is now impossible to ignore.

The IDF has taken a very slow and careful approach. There are typically under a hundred Palestinians killed at a time, but they are killed most days with a high degree of consistency. Headlines like "50 civilians killed in Gaza overnight" no longer make it to the front page. There has clearly been careful management to ensure that the numbers don't climb high enough in a single day to upset the new "normal". Israel has banned foreign journalists and the IDF has deliberately targeted those inside of Gaza to further minimize coverage. On top of that, the IDF has targeted healthcare infrastructure and workers while carefully controlling aid to bring about famine without provoking any significant foreign response.

The big concerns now should be how quickly an incipient famine in a region whose healthcare system has been largely eliminated could cause mass deaths, and how long the fog of war Netanyahu has carefully crafted over Gaza might hide it. The remaining window of time in which intervention might prevent tragedy is rapidly closing.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#733

Post by xenocratus »

culi wrote: post #728
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

> In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all Since 2005, Israel has maintained a strategy for managing Gaza called "mowing the grass"[0][1] in which every few years they attack and conduct short, sharp military operations. This is in contrast to their strategy of (illegal) settlements in the West Bank. In fact, they removed 8,000 settlers in 2005 when they began this strategy. Besides the maj…

> I find it extremely hard to believe Israel didn't know, with extreme detail, what they were getting themselves into

I find it extremely hard to believe Israel didn't know about the Oct 7 attack in the first place, and chose to use it as a reason.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#734

Post by gatlin »

jameshilliard wrote: post #684
holmesworcester wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. If Israel would like to give Gaza ful…

> A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. It's not just Palestinians they nee…

> Are you seriously suggesting Israel can just give citizenship/voting rights to all Palestinians and make a group that largely wants their destruction a voting majority?

Can you think of any reason why Palestinians might feel this way? Does anything come to mind?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#735

Post by gatlin »

jameshilliard wrote: post #726
Agingcoder wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way to starve people deliberately, and win a media war ? I’m not sure this has anything to do with Muslim vs Jewish population sizes.

> Is there any way to starve people deliberately, and win a media war ? I guess by doing what Hamas does[0]? > I’m not sure this has anything to do with Muslim vs Jewish population sizes. Mostly it's just an issue of Muslims being largely supportive of the Palestinian cause for religious reasons and having much larger populations. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crr2dwn7q40o

Also the repulsive and evil actions of Israel. That is also why people support Palestinians.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#736

Post by YZF »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #650
YZF wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would you do if you're Israel? Suck it up? Leave the hostages to rot in Gaza? Wait until the next coordinated attack from Iran, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza? Israel's enemies want it destroyed- that's what's at stake here. If Hamas had a chance it would keep going and murder all Israelis, not just the ones they managed to before they were repelled. What sort of adaptation are you proposing? I do agr…

> what would you do if you're Israel? Let in the food. Flood Gaza with food, actually, so it stops being a recruitment tool for militants.

If that solved the problem I would endorse it. I don't see how it does or how you do it.

How do you get food to all of Gaza while there is raging fighting? The biggest problem is in Gaza city where there is intense fighting. The southern areas have a lot more food. How do we flood Gaza city with food? Ceasefire? We had one. Then what?

Let's plan this in more detail. Who is going to distribute the food in Gaza? Who in Gaza has weapons and control? How is the hostage problem resolved? How do we get Hamas to not rule over Gaza any more?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#737

Post by YZF »

toast0 wrote: post #717
ashdksnndck wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alternately, big problems require big solutions. Forcibly return Gaza to Egyptian control, as it was before the Six Day War, and encourage Egypt to deal with Hamas through diplomacy and response to future attacks from within Gaza as if they were from Egypt. This sounds kind of like the proposed peace plan, no? They’re supposedly going to put an Arab force in charge of Gaza.

I don't know what the proposed peace plan is? I saw a lot of articles declaring there was one, but I couldn't find it published anywhere?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70155nked7o

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#738

Post by culi »

ebbi wrote: post #359
abrenuntio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Orthodox Jews are very active against it, on very sound religious grounds.

They're a very tiny minority, and unfortunately they also get harrassed by Zionist Israelis

About 22% of Israel is orthodox and about 13% can be called "ultra-orthodox".

They play a major role in politics. Most prominently and recently, the 8-decade long exemption from the draft for Haredi Jewish people was ended causing a major crisis in Israel's government. All Haredi representatives of the Knesset withdrew leaving Netanyahu's party's majority with a razor thin margin of 61 seats in the 120-seat Knesset

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#739

Post by SilverElfin »

istjohn wrote: post #400
jameshilliard wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "deal" is very one sided This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2. > The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either. It's a surrender agreement effectively, it's certainly not a peace deal amongst equal parties.

The indigenous people of Palestine did not start this conflict. They did not choose to be colonized by Jews fleeing persecution in Eastern Europe.

[flagged]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#740

Post by istajeer242 »

YZF wrote: post #722
muzani wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What we have seen throughout this is not criticism. It is hate. It is often directed at Jews, not just at the Israeli government. Not 100% but a large percentage." This is exactly the blackpill. I live in a Muslim-majority country. Jews and Muslims have been allies since the start of Islamic history. Yes, there was some hate for Jews 20 years ago, but it has been gradually displaced into Zionist hate. The recent ana…

I'm not sure where you get "Jews and Muslims have been allies since the start of Islamic history" and then you pivot to hate for Jews 20 years ago. Antisemitism is alive and kicking. Hate to Jews has not been "displaced into Zionist hate". It's just s/Jews/Zionists/ the hate is the same hate. The blood libels are the same blood libels. The stereotypes the same stereotypes. If you are talking about how Jews have been…

That's not true; I have seen many members in the Satmar community here in NYC that join pro palestinian protests, and are met with absolute love. They're spat on by the Israeli side at said protests. I think people here at least separate the two very well and it's not a s/Jews/Zionists/g at all.
Post reply on HN