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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

cnn.com

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#511

Post by arkensaw »

mindslight wrote: post #314
crikeykangaroo wrote: post #230

This genocide reveals how much Israel truly controls the US government and other Western countries. I am beyond appalled this is allowed to happen. The last couple of months also showed that international rules and agreements don't mean anything - they are in fact only there to please the Western countries, until they throw it in the bin when it is convenient to them.

I've got to wonder if Israel is one the pillars propping up Trump along with China and Russia. It would make perfect sense with its relation to the Epstein files (in which Trump is likely mentioned every other paragraph). I'm not saying the Democrats have done great by Gaza, but I feel like the point we're at - irrefutable genocide through starvation - there would at least be significant pressure to stop attacking hu…

That simply will never happen. As outspoken as EU countries are, they are not inclined to act beyond the diplomatic equivalent of a strongly worded email. It's a fantasy to think that any single EU nation would risk a shooting war with Israel by trying to deliver aid without permission, and they absolutely could never reach a consensus on doing it as a unit.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#512

Post by dotancohen »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #364
JamesAdir wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)

  > Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense.
The war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned. When Hamas believes that the war no longer makes sense, then they are invited to return the hostages and the war will end.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#513

Post by rgblambda »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #403
asadm wrote: post #193

I think people blaming it on Hamas need to realize that Israel funds Hamas and uses it as a tool to further their goals. Hamas is their version of Talibans. It fully lines up.

> Israel funds Hamas Funded. Past tense. We funded the Mujahideen, once, and then got bombed by their successors.

The Taliban had very little overlap in membership with the Mujahedeen. They were their successors in the sense that they overthrew them.

The Mujahedeen did not morph into or rebrand as the Taliban. In fact they became the Northern Alliance, opposed to the Taliban.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#514

Post by m101 »

phgn wrote: post #447
alborzb wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you're being down-voted... But here's two credible sources: Reuters estimates the deaths at 60,000 [ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestini... ] The UN estimates it to be at about 65,000 [ https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaz... ] Neither of which are around 600 thousand as the previous commenter posted. The French News Channel called France24 did a quick…

Because the linked article clearly states why the official numbers are not accurate in the authors opinions. Also "These numbers are just false" is not a valid argument.

Hello again.

Saying it's false is a valid argument against something completely ludicrous like 680,000 dead. If you expect everyone to come up with "valid arguments" for blindingly obvious things then it is you who is not carrying out polite conversation (as per your other comments)

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#515

Post by pbreit »

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

[flagged]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#516

Post by matthewdgreen »

BJones12 wrote: post #478
wat10000 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this particular (supposed) definition change matter here ? Because if it doesn't, pushback by the aggressor is heinous and obviously disingenuous even if your abstract love of accuracy means you happen to agree with the objection.

From my understanding there is an argument about whether 12% or 16% of children meet a certain threshold of food availability, which affects whether or not it is called a famine. One is regarded as not a famine, one is regarded as a famine, and there is argument over what data to use. And the definition does matter, because 'famine' has the meaning of a certain level of bad thing happening. If we do not preserve the…

The word “famine” does not have a clearly-defined statistical meaning outside of some very specific circumstances. We abhor the idea of famine whether it occurs at 12% or 14% or 23% of children because we see all of these things to be very bad circumstances. One particular organization chose a 15% threshold for a legalistic definition in their framework, and the government is lawyering this because they can lawyer an arbitrary threshold and they think that will help them win some PR points. Thats all this is.

PS Do you really think the number “15%” is some natural value that nature or the Bible or teams of scientists chose to define “famine”? It’s an arbitrary threshold that someone picked because it’s a bit larger than 10% and less than 20% and divisible by the number of digits on the human hand.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#517

Post by screye »

phgn wrote: post #502
screye wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen any numbers exceeding 100k. Where did you get 600k from ? the article is taking projections and applying multiple extrapolations to them. It is a bad estimate. The current estimates are between 53000 - 66000. About 10x lower than what you propose.

[flagged]

I read the article. It piled about 5 different assumptions on top of each other.

It takes the upper bound for the deaths in the first 9 months. Then extrapolates it linearly to the last 2.5 years. Then multiplies it by 4, because it estimates that starvation deaths must be 4x.

At that point, why even guess ?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#518

Post by LightBug1 »

TrnsltLife wrote: post #501
frank_nitti wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Charlie Kirk, of all people, was talking about this (ignore the clickbait video title): https://youtu.be/3wUq3t9f6ug?si=nV_NukcsjHZgj0MT

Of all people?

I don't know much about Charlie Kirk except what I've read recently. But he does/did seem to be part of a growing element of the right in the USA who stand against Israel and Netanyahu specifically. And while I support that, I don't think it's necessarily to support Palestinians, but more as an America First policy.

In that context, "of all people" makes sense to me. I too have been surprised by the move, of some on the right, against Israel, considering their almost unanimous support previously.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#519

Post by pbreit »

Animats wrote: post #115

“Israel has built the most efficient starvation machine you can imagine.” There's political opposition to this within Israel. Here's what happened to an elected member of the Knesset who spoke out against the cruelty in Gaza.[1] He was forcibly removed from the podium of the Knesset. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDxV7jnAos

[flagged]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#520

Post by jmyeet »

Humorist2290 wrote: post #482

So focusing on the details of the situation in Gaza is quite awful. The general tone of the comments in this thread, along with basically any public forum I think speaks for the reverberation of human suffering throughout this -- civilians are being made into casualties, Israeli and Palestinian, and it's terrible. Taking a broader perspective, large parts of the human race have come to realize famine is a relic of th…

Famine is political, always. The world produces a significant excess of food. The only reason famine exists is because one group of people is perfectly happy to starve another group of people. Gaza is not unique here although Gaza is a aprticularly egregious example of industrial mass starvation and death at the hands of a highly-developed military and state actor.
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