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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#171

Post by yoyohello13 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I actually think ad based funding models is probably one of the most destructive forces in our society. Do you think politics would be so insane right now if fear based click baiting wasn’t so profitable?

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#172

Post by graeme »

lbhdc wrote: post #135
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

https://about.fb.com/news/2024/11/facebook-and-instagram-to-... Don't they already offer this? Did it get canceled?

The EU thought the price should be cheap enough that people would pay instead of choosing ads.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#173

Post by graeme »

lbhdc wrote: post #135
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

https://about.fb.com/news/2024/11/facebook-and-instagram-to-... Don't they already offer this? Did it get canceled?

The EU thought the price should be cheap enough that people would pay instead of choosing ads. I think they rejected this plan.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#174

Post by dvdkon »

ilovetux wrote: post #120
odux wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The very existence of these apps and websites is based on such “user hostile” behavior. Same with the cat and mouse game between YouTube ads and ad blockers and third party YouTube apps. If the side wanting to completely stop Youtube ads becomes successful, YouTube will cease to exist (as a free app). I am not arguing for this model, my feed is getting more useless every day, but the only other model is subs…

YouTube offers an ad-free subscription called YouTube premium. It's reasonably priced and includes access to YouTube Music. I like the hybrid approach of being able to be ad-supported or paid with no ads. I would like to see more of it. What I don't like is a paid service like Amazon Prime that also includes ads. They include ads in their search results and they include tons of ads in their video library. FWIW: Hulu…

YouTube is a good example here, because at least in the EU, you can disable any tracking. You then don't get front-page recommendations, which would normally use that tracking information, but otherwise you can use YouTube just fine.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#175

Post by Workaccount2 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #159
ajkjk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people Dear god, yes, please, good. Pass laws that force the bloated companies to lose users. Yes. World = better.

Listen I am all for these big tech companies losing the users but I don't think this was the reason why they wrote this comment or my understanding of it My understanding of the parent comment and the comment above the parent comment was that the grand comment was frustrated on why things can't be subscription based internet instead of a sneaky ad tech which invades our privacy. The comment responding to it basically…

I don't think it's that companies want the ad model, it's that they know they cannot compete with it if they have a subscription model.

Nebula, the "answer" to the shittyness of youtube that creators have been falling over themselves to promote for the last 5 years, still has a conversion rate under 1%.

People hate ads, but they really really hate subscriptions.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#176

Post by green_beans_25 »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #123
nhinck2 wrote: post #57

I wish I could make youtube default to the subscriber behaviour.

1. Subscribe to what you want to see 2. Bookmark the “your subscriptions” page; don’t visit the home page 2a. Although if you disable watch history, youtube tries to punish you by blanking out the “home” page. I consider that a good thing. 3. Use an ad blocker to hide the comments and side bar (recommended videos) That’s pretty much what I do. Discoverability happens off-site, which might be a hindrance for you, but…

Blocking elements with ad block works well, but for convenience I use the extension Unhook. It can redirect the home feed to subscriptions, hide end screen cards, end screen feed, live chat, auto generated mixes, notifications, shorts, etc. I also use a tampermonkey script to auto set theater mode and resolution (necessary for incognito mode).

It would be nice if youtube could include some of these handy features in the settings, but it is not something they want to do it seems.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#177

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

afavour wrote: post #153
jfengel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

> Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. To an extent. I think if everyday users were shown just how much personal data follows them around from site to site I think they’d be horrified. Enough to change their habits? Possibly not. But I don’t think people have full understanding.

I also think that people don't have full understanding but I am also not sure how people can get that understanding.

us discussing things here won't reach those people and frankly I am not sure what would.

There is so much actual content about it that I am sure even I don't know 20% about, of all the ways these companies spy but I do know that there are some options to soften the blow by using things like librewolf etc. if you need privacy and ublock origin etc. too

We don't need people to have a full understanding imo, we just somehow need to show them enough and show them the alternatives somehow and hope that things change or try our best but I am not sure.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#178

Post by jfengel »

s3p wrote: post #164
jfengel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

What? Just give them an option. Ads or ad free with card.

Some sites do give you that option. But they're still going to track you everywhere else, so opting out of one doesn't really solve the privacy problem.

There's also an economic problem with the pay-or-ad model. The users who won't pay are the ones with the least money, so your remaining advertisers won't pay as much. They may not even break even with the ads, but persist just to annoy you into subscribing.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#179

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #175
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen I am all for these big tech companies losing the users but I don't think this was the reason why they wrote this comment or my understanding of it My understanding of the parent comment and the comment above the parent comment was that the grand comment was frustrated on why things can't be subscription based internet instead of a sneaky ad tech which invades our privacy. The comment responding to it basically…

I don't think it's that companies want the ad model, it's that they know they cannot compete with it if they have a subscription model. Nebula, the "answer" to the shittyness of youtube that creators have been falling over themselves to promote for the last 5 years, still has a conversion rate under 1%. People hate ads, but they really really hate subscriptions.

I can understand if people can't pay for subscriptions. I am not talking from first world citizen and I understand that, this is very real.

If I can be honest, in an ideal world we would have something like patreon and the likes and people sharing their videos on something like peertube and other mechanisms.

I don't want to gatekeep content behind a subscription so that people would be unable to access a community or content when the economy might be out of their hands and they don't want to pay for a subscription but I just wish if more people who do have the means to help and wouldn't be financially impacted much by donating actually do that more often / more as that would be the ideal world but maybe the question is if we can ever reach that or would that always remain an ideal and that we are just stuck with the things in current form.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#180

Post by N70Phone »

eru wrote: post #15
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #12

As a European, I’m glad that the influence of big, potentially dangerous companies is being kept in check. From the start of October, Meta is completely switching off political ads and now I can look forward to my feed stopping with tabloids, politics and Russian propaganda and going back to technical curiosities and capybaras.

Why don't you just stop using Facebook, if you don't like it?

An important matter in this particular case: It's about elections as well.

You can opt to not use facebook yourself to protect your own data, that is more or less fine. (Though we can talk about Facebook's collection of non-user data another time)

You can't individually opt out of the election influence.

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