So what exactly can we do to make them pay?
> This bill would require plaintiffs to pay defendants’ legal costs if the suit is unsuccessful. Under current law, the patent trolls don’t have any meaningful risk in bringing litigation. The defendants, on the other hand, are subjected to enormous legal expenses and discovery costs. The SHIELD Act is designed to level the playing field and take away the trolls’ unfair advantage. We encourage all of our customers, p…
Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
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Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#62I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…
First is some form of legal ju-jitsu. If you are sued by a patent troll, you need to make it so they have no chance of stopping your business. One possibility is to dissolve and reform your company in some manner, perhaps moving it to another jurisdiction in the process.
This would at minimum cause a lot more work for trolls. It also causes hassle for you, but perhaps a business model could be built around this - imagine if your small startup could be legally dissolved and recreated, with all current legal structure in places like equity, somewhere else, perhaps as a division of a larger company. With the option to reform as an independent company whenever you want. Just moving around would make troll's lives much harder, and this could be much cheaper than fighting in the courts.
Another interesting idea is, as mentioned by others, that you can be sued for patent infringement even for products you use but didn't make. Everyone uses Windows or OS X, and they surely infringe many (ridiculous) patents, so even patent trolls are vulnerable to this. Microsoft and Apple do provide protection though, so this might be problematic.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This bill would require plaintiffs to pay defendants’ legal costs if the suit is unsuccessful. Under current law, the patent trolls don’t have any meaningful risk in bringing litigation. The defendants, on the other hand, are subjected to enormous legal expenses and discovery costs. The SHIELD Act is designed to level the playing field and take away the trolls’ unfair advantage. We encourage all of our customers, p…
That America does not have a "Loser Pays" legal system is completely terrifying. British law, which is followed in various forms by many countries, imposes severe penalties on those that lose cases. The risk for a plaintiff is significant and the damages done to a victim of wrongful prosecution while not negligible are at least off-set by the fees paid by the loser instead of the losing party being able to walk away…
If a suit is truly meritless, it will be dismissed very early in the litigation process (summary judgment) before costs have piled up. The American legal system tries very hard to be "lazy" (in the CS sense), backloading costs as much as possible. Yes, it can cost millions of dollars to defend a suit at trial, but if a suit has made it that far it means that it was not a meritless suit. Why should the loser pay if he brings a meritorious case in good faith? Remember, in the US a lawsuit is usually the process through which the facts underlying a dispute are discovered. It often happens that someone legitimately thinks he has been wronged, but the process of litigation uncovers facts that show otherwise.
Loser pays systems chill litigation against big corporations. People focus on the situations in which they perceive there to be too much litigation, but in many areas there is not enough litigation. Litigation is the process through which citizens force corporations to fix unsafe products or clean up polluted land and water. Individuals are already at a huge disadvantage in these situations, and the threat of a corporation running up the bill in a loser pays system would do great injustice. Europe gets away with it because it has far more active government oversight and prosecution of such things.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#64I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…
While this is certainly a good idea, what happens when one member from the organization tries to sue another? Back to square one?? I'm just curious, I'm no patent lawyer either.
I would also suggest it should be the stated policy of the organization not to defer at all to the PTO on the question of patent validity. Everyone should expect that the arbiters would consider most issued patents (at least, most issued software patents) to fail the obviousness test.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#65I think we should require half of the money spent on legal teams for lawsuits to go to paying for the other party's legal expenses. I think this would reduce frivolous lawsuits because, whereas now the wealthiest party always wins, if the defendant/plaintiff has equal support the legally correct party might win.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#66What about legitimate inventors, rather than patent trolls? There is a large element of uncertainty in any patent suit that has a trial by jury, and it is not at all uncommon for clearly legitimate patents to be found invalid by the jury. The SHIELD Act sounds like it would make it effectively impossible for any small inventor who is not wealthy to sue a large infringer, because the risk of total ruin would be too hi…
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#67I was curious where Rackspace stands with their own portfolio, and it seems they have actually avoided patents, which surprised me somewhat for a large, public company: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassi... The tone of the article -- specifically focusing on patent trolls being problematic, but less focus on the other systemic problems with the patent system -- made me wonder if they were just going…
One of the entities RS acquired was SGI. Whom I suspect may have had a patent portfolio. Not sure who got that though. Oh ... crap. Looks like they were retained by Graphics Properties Holdings, who is, you guessed it, a patent troll themselves: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120419/02113518553/sgi-ba...
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#68There is a long history here. These terrible software patents have been around a good while now, and they have been a curse on Internet companies for over a decade. The "America Invents Act" which passed about a year ago was the culmination of a lengthy process which started with the proposed Patent Reform Act of 2005. It went nowhere, nor did the later iterations in 2007, 2009 etc. These earlier bills definitely targeted patent trolls, but did not pass because of significant opposition by a coalition of interests that did not (and do not) want to accept the changes necessary to hammer the patent trolls. Take a look at the organizations against and for at the wikepedia entry for the Patent Reform Act of 2009 and you will see what I mean.
Now, those opponents are still powerful; therefore to pass any legislation a bill will need to be acceptable to most of them. That means any bill that passes will not be ideal. My goal is to try to get a bill that at least levels the playing field and puts plaintiffs in a position where they have economic risk. The status quo is simply untenable and it is getting worse.
Many of the comments here correctly point out flaws in the SHIELD Act. We will try hard to convince the sponsors to correct these flaws to ensure the bill has teeth. However we must not lose sight of the real issue, namely whether the bill can get out of committee and receive a majority of the House and 60 Senators. It will be hard, and it will take a lot of public support. Please write Congressmen DeFazio and Chaffetz, as well as your own Members of Congress and give them your point view. They will pay attention. If they do not hear from thousands of people, nothing will change.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#69I have never heard from serious european company which argue that it need software patents to protect its IP.
Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay
#70Just curious, how much do vague patents like this cost? Are they cheap? Expensive?
Think about it. What would happen if they were cheap? Anyone could amass a large portfolio. We could all block each other's every move. No one would have any leverage. But the second question you have to ask is what does it cost to sue? What if that were cheap?