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Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

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Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#31

Post by dredmorbius »

htf wrote: post #26
robomartin wrote: post #11

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

If the patent troll doesn't produce anything, you have no power against them. They don't care if you own a million patents yourself, they can still sue you for infringement of their one patent with no fear of repercussions.

Patent infringement isn't restricted to manufacture: "Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."

17 USC 271(a)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/271

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#32

Post by jakejake »

It would seem like there could be legislation that says if you are not actively developing a product from a patent then you can't sue. I'm sure there's too much legal BS involving what "active" means, but it would seem like there must be some way to have a law that limits lawsuits to those people who are actually using their patent to create something.

Having the loser pay I think would also be a good step, however it probably would affect honest innovators when they're victims of patent infringement. Because it would be a huge risk to protect your patent. I know the argument against that is just get rid of patents, but I don't think that's realistically going to happen.

I can see why it's a tricky issue to legislate but it's so frustrating that seemingly nothing is being done.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#33

Post by DenisM »

PG had a modest proposal to deal with the problem - name and shame lawyers who work for trolls, create a blacklist and refuse to deal with those lawyers. Trolls don't care about their reputation, but lawyers do. If we as an industry come together on this one the trolls will have no one to do the dirty work for them.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#34

Post by [deleted] »

robomartin wrote: post #11

I've posted this a few times on HN. The solution to this problem is, in my humble opinion, very simple. Rather than presenting a divided community to trolls, we have to present a united front. This would come in the form of a legal support organization that would be 100% dedicated to fighting trolls on behalf of it's members. Call it insurance, if you will. Member companies would pay a monthly or yearly membership fe…

[deleted]

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#35

Post by learc83 »

amitparikh wrote: post #10
atomical wrote: post #8

It seems like PersonalWeb is trying to develop software... http://www.personalweb.com/ Interesting that their CEO was involved early on in P2P.

Does it, though? First red flag for me is that they are based in "East Texas": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_fo... On their "How we do it" page, they mention some Natural Language Processing software that they're developing, but primarily highlight their "valuable" patent portfolio.

Any company that lists that they own "some really amazing patents" in bold on their home page can't possibly be real.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#36

Post by CamperBob2 »

DenisM wrote: post #33

PG had a modest proposal to deal with the problem - name and shame lawyers who work for trolls, create a blacklist and refuse to deal with those lawyers. Trolls don't care about their reputation, but lawyers do. If we as an industry come together on this one the trolls will have no one to do the dirty work for them.

That's a dangerous place to go. Next there will be a call to name and shame lawyers who defend accused corporate polluters. After that, lawyers who defend alleged child molesters. Then, alleged murderers. Lather, rinse, repeat until we end up with a hopelessly-politicized legal profession.

Plus, it's not clear why a patent lawyer might stay up at night worrying about his reputation with someone like myself who is almost violently opposed to patents. It's not as if I was thinking of hiring him to sue somebody.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#37

Post by htf »

dredmorbius wrote: post #31
htf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the patent troll doesn't produce anything, you have no power against them. They don't care if you own a million patents yourself, they can still sue you for infringement of their one patent with no fear of repercussions.

Patent infringement isn't restricted to manufacture: "Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent." 17 USC 271(a) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/271

Wow, even just using a patented invention counts as infringement. I didn't expect that.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#38

Post by mnutt »

tedivm wrote: post #24
mnutt wrote: post #2

The SHIELD Act is a great step, but I wonder how this will fare against the patent troll practice of setting up separate legal entities specifically for litigating individual patents? If they lose, they declare bankruptcy and move on to the next shell corporation.

If they file bankruptcy they have to sell off their assets to raise money for their creditors- assets which include the patents themselves.

True, but doesn't losing mean having the patent declared invalid anyway? Which renders it worthless whether or not loser pays.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#39

Post by genwin »

tzs wrote: post #28

What about legitimate inventors, rather than patent trolls? There is a large element of uncertainty in any patent suit that has a trial by jury, and it is not at all uncommon for clearly legitimate patents to be found invalid by the jury. The SHIELD Act sounds like it would make it effectively impossible for any small inventor who is not wealthy to sue a large infringer, because the risk of total ruin would be too hi…

> The SHIELD Act sounds like it would make it effectively impossible for any small inventor who is not wealthy to sue a large infringer, because the risk of total ruin would be too high.

Worse. It would make it effectively impossible for anyone who isn't wealthy to sue anyone or any company that is. At a minimum, those pesky environmental laws would no longer be a concern.

Re: Patent Trolls: Make Them Pay

#40

Post by tedivm »

mnutt wrote: post #38
tedivm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they file bankruptcy they have to sell off their assets to raise money for their creditors- assets which include the patents themselves.

True, but doesn't losing mean having the patent declared invalid anyway? Which renders it worthless whether or not loser pays.

No, it's just one way they could lose. The other side can be found to be non-infringing, or it could be found that a very very specific clause of the patent is invalid as opposed to the whole thing.
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