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Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

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Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typst is open source. It can be used as a cli tool https://github.com/typst/typst

Is the format "open" as well?

I’m curious what you mean. It’s a language with an open source implementation.

Others can and do implement parts of the language - e.g. Pandoc implements a parser and evaluates Typst.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#352

It's night and day. I'm a PhD student currently writing my thesis in Typst. On paper this is an absurdly risky decision: it's a new technology without a huge user-base, it's not totally stable yet, etc. But I tried Typst and I had no choice. It was obviously the right thing to do, even though I'm going to have to make a pixel-perfect clone of my university's LaTeX template. I've been using LaTeX for over ten years an…

I might have to give it a try. There's a lot I like about the idea of latex but I've never been able to successfully internalize how to use it in a non-painful way either. I've pretty much given up on the whole idea of making a PDF do what I want at this point. I've looked into typst before and am always turned off hugely by the website's attempt to make it look like some sort of purchased product with a freemium opt…

I have only ever used it as a command line tool and written my Typst files in Sublime.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#353

It's night and day. I'm a PhD student currently writing my thesis in Typst. On paper this is an absurdly risky decision: it's a new technology without a huge user-base, it's not totally stable yet, etc. But I tried Typst and I had no choice. It was obviously the right thing to do, even though I'm going to have to make a pixel-perfect clone of my university's LaTeX template. I've been using LaTeX for over ten years an…

I might have to give it a try. There's a lot I like about the idea of latex but I've never been able to successfully internalize how to use it in a non-painful way either. I've pretty much given up on the whole idea of making a PDF do what I want at this point. I've looked into typst before and am always turned off hugely by the website's attempt to make it look like some sort of purchased product with a freemium opt…

Oh yeah, I can’t imagine most people are using their web editor thing. Good for them that they have it, I guess. It looks like it’s done well, a strong competitor for Overleaf. I’ve never even opened it, though, to be honest.

It is a little bit unfortunate that they don’t distinguish more clearly Typst-the-program and Typst-the-company in their advertising.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#354

LaTeX is a horrible system, that has some fans who are basically cultists. I suppose people like it cause Knuth, but remember Knuth just made Tex. Imagine if C++ had stayed a hodge podge of extra tools compiling to C and C macros? That's LaTeX relative to TeX. Typst should win and destroy all this stuff. If was in control of government science funding, I would just make all the journals accept it immediately, just li…

This is a fine opinion, here is another one. Calling everyone who uses LaTeX cultists is a bit insulting. I do not particularly like LaTeX and use it only when a journal requires it in which case it is pretty much painless as I simply follow the provided template. TeX, on the other hand pretty much satisfies all my typesetting needs and I use it daily. I wish everyone would use TeX or LaTeX but I would not force it on everyone. Typst seems like a fine if a bit immature system but I truly hope it goes away, the sooner the better. Not because it is bad at what it does but because it solves a problem that does not exist and distracts from a standard that may not be perfect but has proved itself again and again. I am also weary of any piece of software that is controlled by a private entity, no matter how good the initial intentions are. Being open source is not really a guarantee of anything.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#355
post #225

The programming parts are very tempting, but I find the philosophy of the math mode input simplification to be questionable. E.g. automatically generating fractions from "/", or removing parentheses depending on whether they are redundant with other grouping. Those are all choices that I want explicit control over, and the most readable choice depends strongly on the details of the expressions. After some digging it'…

I am also not a fan of automatic fraction. BTW, I notice that both of your complaints will be addressed in the next version: https://github.com/typst/typst/pull/6672 https://github.com/typst/typst/pull/6442 , see also https://laurmaedje.github.io/posts/math-mode-problem/

FWIW the second part does not address my concern (which was about omitting literal parentheses that are present in the markup, in some cases), though it is related. Personally I think it's already a mistake for bare/unescaped words to indicate markup, or I guess the intention is that they indicate mathematical semantics and then Typst decides the best way to write down that semantics unless you explicitly interfere -- seems like a recipe for confusion whenever Typst's ideas of the mapping from semantics to typography don't quite line up with yours, or the conventions in your field. I'd much rather approach mathematical typesetting with a typesetting language than a mathematical language where somebody else has decided how that math should be typeset, even if it means a sea of backslashes and curly braces.

(Edit to add: I guess this means my preference would be option E from the blog post -- I see the extra symbols as far preferable to the ambiguity between content and markup)

Also wow, recovering from this breaking change is going to be incredibly painful for somebody.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#356

The git repository[0] for your typist to latex filter in the “transform” article[1] you link in the conclusion returns a 403 error :/ I’d love to see the code [0] https://lee-phillips.org/typstfilters/code [1] https://lee-phillips.org/typstfilters

Do a `git clone` as it says on the page.

ah, I assumed it would be visible in the browser since it said read only. I stand corrected.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to do this, might as well go with AsciiDoc instead. It's vastly superior as a syntax. Markdown breaks down at the mere mention of something as trivial as a nested list item containing a table of blockquotes.

Not that it couldn’t be trivial in the abstract, but I’m struggling to imagine a use for a nested list item containing a table of blockquotes. It doesn’t seem at all surprising that a tool wouldn’t anticipate that.

Things from the design world, like Acceptance Criteria would happily require it.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading a single book is not equivalent to a PhD in LaTeX.

A single book on latex only covers you until the introduction of your thesis. Then you will need to add a table. That’s a different book. Then you will need to align your equations. That is another book. Then you will need a graph. This is a freaking library of books. I mourn for the time I wasted on Latex. For nothing.

That's not even close to be true.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it is getting better but I've experienced some breaking changes with Typst. Nothing that was terribly difficult to fix, debugging it wasn't obvious though. There seems to be a huge amount of folks that want typst to work. I respect TeX and LaTeX, immensely, but it's so vast and byzantine. Maybe I don't know where or what, but some kind of clean LaTeX "distribution" is needed. It seems like you could build i…

> some kind of clean LaTeX "distribution" is needed I don't think a distro would do much to alleviate my gripes with (La)TeX which is its language and VM. TeX-the-language violates literally every single architectural principle we have come to rally around in sane programming languages. Whether you start by reading the TeX book or by copy-pasting from similar LaTeX documents, in my experience you'll soon hit a wall.…

Couldn't have said it better myself. Plus, you're not supposed to notice any of this. If you do, the TeX masters will put their fingers in their ears and tell you it's PEBKAC. "Get good, n00b. RTFM. It's not happening, but if it is, it's a good thing. It has to be designed this way, actually, you're just too thick to understand why. No, I won't explain."

Also, every part of the system is like this, not just the language-qua-language. The architecture of the compiler is like this. The compiler UI is like this (yes for every TeX engine). The package management/distribution situation is like this.

It basically has two things going for it: it's highly portable, backwards-compatible, and stable, and it produces really pretty documents.

Re: Typst: A Possible LaTeX Replacement

#360

It's night and day. I'm a PhD student currently writing my thesis in Typst. On paper this is an absurdly risky decision: it's a new technology without a huge user-base, it's not totally stable yet, etc. But I tried Typst and I had no choice. It was obviously the right thing to do, even though I'm going to have to make a pixel-perfect clone of my university's LaTeX template. I've been using LaTeX for over ten years an…

> If there isn't a package for something that I need (and, surprisingly often, there are packages for what I need, and excellent ones!), I find that I can just do it myself. Quickly. (Serious question) With or without an LLM?

Without. I’ve recently tried using Claude, though, for things like mathematical drawings, and it works pretty well with a little back-and-forth and debugging. Especially with similar example code in context.
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