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Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

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Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#391

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nebula8804 wrote: post #205
shagie wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They keep expanding in places where it doesn't snow. They've got testing facilities in Detroit ( https://mcity.umich.edu/what-we-do/mcity-test-facility/ ) ... but I want to see it work while it is snowing or after it has snowed in the upper midwest. https://youtu.be/YvcfpO1k1fc?si=hONzbMEv22jvTLFS - has suggestions that they're starting testing. If AI driving only works in California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas..…

Define the rest of the country? If you refer to rural areas, thats 1/7 of the population and ~10% of GDP. They can be tossed aside like they are in other avenues.

Doesn't it snow in NYC?

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#392

Post by frenchman_in_ny »

alexpotato wrote: post #383
kbos87 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that self-driving cars won't ever become a thing because someone behind the wheel needs to be to blame. The article cites AI systems that the FDA already has cleared to operate without a physicians' validation.

This is essentially what's happened with airliners. Planes can land themselves with zero human intervention in all kinds of weather conditions and operating environments. In fact, there was a documentary where the plane landed so precisely that you could hear the tires hitting the center lane marker as it landed and then taxied. Yet we STILL have pilots as a "last line of defense" in case something goes wrong.

No - planes cannot "land themselves with zero human intervention" (...). A CAT III autoland on commercial airliners requires a ton of manual setting of systems and certificated aircraft and runways in order to "land themselves" [0][1].

I'm not fully up to speed on the Autonomi / Garmin Autoland implementation found today on Cirrus and other aircraft -- but it's not for "everyday" use for landings.

[0] https://pilotinstitute.com/can-an-airplane-land-itself/

[1] https://askthepilot.com/questionanswers/automation-myths/

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#394

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

varenc wrote: post #294
tw04 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is like saying that self-driving cars won't ever become a thing because someone behind the wheel needs to be to blame. Which is literally the case so far. No manufacturer has shown any willingness to take on the liability of self driving at any scale to date. Waymo has what? 700 cars on the road with the finances and lawyers of Google backing it. Let me know when the bean counters sign off on fleets in the mil…

> Waymo has what? 700 cars on the road ... They have over 2000 on the road and are growing: https://techcrunch.com/2025/08/31/techcrunch-mobility-a-new-... Of course there's 200M+ personal vehicles registered in the US.

Operating in carefully selected urban locations with no severe weather. They are nowhere close to general purpose FSD.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#395

Post by hliyan »

kbos87 wrote: post #277
aabajian wrote: post #209

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

This is like saying that self-driving cars won't ever become a thing because someone behind the wheel needs to be to blame. The article cites AI systems that the FDA already has cleared to operate without a physicians' validation.

Very questionable reasoning: using a traffic analogy to argue against medical reality.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#396

Post by hliyan »

seesthruya wrote: post #361
aabajian wrote: post #209

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

I'm a diagnostic radiologist with 20 years clinical experience, and I have been programming computers since 1979. I need to challenge one of your core assumptions. > Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. I'm sorry, but I disagree, and I think you are making a wild assumption here. I am up to date on the latest AI products in radiology, use several of…

Do any of these models know how to say "I don't know"? This is one of my biggest worries about these models.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#397

Post by red_rech »

luma wrote: post #64
roncesvalles wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only came to this thread to say that this is completely untrue: >Human radiologists spend a minority of their time on diagnostics and the majority on other activities, like talking to patients and fellow clinicians. The vast majority of radiologists do nothing other than: come in (or increasingly, stay at home), sit down at a computer, consume a series of medical images while dictating their findings, and then go h…

Agreed, I'm not sure where the OP from TFA is working but around here, radiologists have all been bought out and rolled into Radiology As A Service organizations. They work from home or at an office, never at a clinic, and have zero interactions with the patient. They perform diagnosis on whatever modality is presented and electronically file their work into their EMR. I work with a couple such orgs on remote access…

Holy shit why did I waste my time in tech.

I could have just gone to med school and never deal with layoffs, RTO, etc.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#398

Post by rossdavidh »

This all sounds very familiar; I recall IBM Watson (remember the last AI hype cycle?) was going to replace radiologists, and in the end IBM Watson didn't even save IBM's bottom line.

Not saying nothing will come of it, but there is a definite pattern to AI hype cycles, and radiology seems to be one of the recurring points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#399

Post by hnfong »

chromatin wrote: post #377
arethuza wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need the first 4 years undergrad - in places like the UK you can go straight to study medicine from secondary school at age ~18?

The belief is -- and it is one that I share -- that this makes for more well rounded, human physicians. Additionally, a greater depth of thinking leads to better diagnosticians, and physician-scientists as well (IMO). Now, all of this is predicated on the traditional model of the University education, not the glorified jobs training program that it has slowly become.

Cynically, it's also a way for the US system to gatekeep "poor" people from entering professions like medicine and law because of the extra tuition fees (and opportunity time-cost) needed to complete their studies.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#400

Post by Spooky23 »

chii wrote: post #309
Spooky23 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, the AI doesn’t create anything, so you add risk potentially to the patient outcome and perhaps make advancement more difficult. My late wife had to have a stent placed in a vein in her brain to relieve cranial pressure. We had to travel to to New York for an interventional radiologist and team to fish a 7 inch stent and balloon from her thigh up. At the time, we had to travel to NYC, and the doctor was one…

> Who’s going to train the future physician the skills needed to develop the procedure? i would presume that AI taking over won't erase the physical work, which would mean existing training regimes will continue to exist. Until one day, an AI robot is capable of performing such a procedure, which would then mean the human job becomes obsolete. Like a horse-drawn coach driver - that "job" is gone today, but nobody mis…

Yeah there’s no more drivers out there, bro. Lol.
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