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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#121

Post by incone123 »

rtpg wrote: post #53
lmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I watched the video and the suggestion is that this makes it easier for employers to verify that someone is authorized to work. Is that actually true? Yes. The rules are complex, and currently the government essentially deputizes employers and banks to enforce them; anyone running e.g. a restaurant is having to essentially guess whether a potential employee is in the UK legally or not, on pain of criminal charges i…

> anyone running e.g. a restaurant is having to essentially guess whether a potential employee is in the UK legally or not, on pain of criminal charges if they get it wrong in one direction and discrimination lawsuits if they get it wrong in the other. I don't get this. Is there nothing like some sort of number to register any tax withholding or the like? I imagine that tax authorities and immigration authorities don…

Tax numbers have no bearing at all on your right to work. If you work legally in the UK for a while then you get a national insurance number but if you then leave and your work visa expires, your national insurance number remains as an identifier.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#122

Post by arrowsmith »

incone123 wrote: post #113
arrowsmith wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing the current system. Employers can receive business-ending fines (at least in theory) for hiring illegal labour. I’ve never worked a job in the UK that didn’t require me to prove my right to work here, eg by showing them my passport. Digitising the IDs will make no difference. And frankly, if you believe this is actually about immigration then I’m embarrassed for you. Everyone can see that they’re j…

I have never seen a report of a business ending because of a fine. I have seen reports of hospitality business having to close because they lost their alcohol licence, where the licencee employing illegal immigrants was deemed not to be a fit and proper person.

On paper, the punishment for hiring illegal labour is £45k per worker for the first offence and up to £60k for repeat offences[0]. That's enough to ruin a small business.

Whether or not these laws are actually enforced is another matter. [Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops]. But I've been asked to show ID at every job I've ever had, so companies obviously care about it even if the risk is low.

[0] source: https://www.irwinmitchell.com/news-and-insights/expert-comme...

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#123

Post by pjmlp »

rock_artist wrote: post #70
mrtksn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks and service providers can ask for your digital ID, the employers can ask for your digital ID and when that becomes the standart you will have very hard time to have a life in UK without having all the permissions. Most of EU and many other countries have something like that, at least you have a citizenship or resident number that they can check against to see what's your situation. In UK though, everything…

> In UK though, everything is run over proof of address and it's quite annoying for new immigrants(legal or not) because its circular. The circular issue is quite similar to Spain. Where in order to obtain residency you need an address. But for being able to rent, most likely you’ll need a bank account and ideally a Spanish identification number. But for having a local bank account you need an address. Similar to the…

In Portugal it gets even worse, because many landlords still ask for a guarantor willing to take responsability over the rent.

My experience in a few European countries was also circular, the only thing that helped was that I could use the work contract and a letter from HR to break the cycle, however this naturally only works when the job is already secure before coming into the country.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#124

Post by angulardragon03 »

Nursie wrote: post #27
isodev wrote: post #12

I’ve always lived in places where having an ID on you has been part of your “citizen responsibilities”. So reading the post my feeling was “oh cool, they’re getting a new eID-like system”. But I imagine it’s a huge step if folks could get by without an ID at all.

In the UK it has never been compulsory to carry ID, even when driving. At a traffic stop the police have the option to require you to present documents at a police station within seven days if they think something is fishy. And people do seem to exist quite happily without formal identification. As someone who has always had a passport and driving license it was a bit of an eye-opener to me, but if you don't drive an…

The counterpoint to this is obviously that the requirement to present ID to vote is tantamount to voter suppression - iirc there is no “free” form of ID in the UK.

As an ex-Brit I am also used to carrying an ID and a drivers license, and I’ve always found it quite weird that you can’t get an ID card of any kind that isn’t a full-fledged passport or a drivers license.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#126

Post by logifail »

incone123 wrote: post #117
logifail wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's presumably harder to forge a cryptographic signature than paper documents? Unless there is both serious pressure from the state and the population at large supports a massive increase in checking and being checked I struggle to see this working. During the pandemic various countries experimented with mandating showing of QR codes to do stuff to "prove" compliance ... yet looking back on that, all it seems to h…

Checking for right to work has been legally required for over a decade. Checks in the formal economy are now routine. Can sometimes be a nuisance, like for my friend who doesn't have a passport and his driving license was issued before those went photographic.

> Checks in the formal economy are now routine

Someone who is prepared to pay people smugglers to help them cross a border illegally may not choose to restrict themselves to working in "the formal economy".

"Illegal working and streams of taxis - BBC gains rare access inside asylum hotels"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy8ee2w73jo

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#128

Post by Erwin »

gmac wrote: post #77
Nursie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is almost guaranteed to be an aspect of this, the UK is going through a period where immigration is in the news constantly and the populist party "Reform UK" are on the rise. The Labour government has realised that whatever their own feelings are about people coming to the UK by irregular means and claiming asylum, they need to be seen to recognise the popular narrative right now that the boats must be st…

… except that trying to out-Farage Farage (by being bastards to asylum seekers) will lose them many of their traditional supporters (who are not big on being bastards to asylum seekers) and seems unlikely to gain them many Farage supporters (why would they take some half-hearted populist bastardry when they can have the real deal?). The ‘small boats’ narrative is ludicrously over-reported here. It’s such a clear case…

Because the same thing has happened successfully in most other European countries. Nationalist parties talk about scary immigrants, ordinary parties tighten immigration rules, and the nationalist parties fail to gain power.

For example, Denmark created the highly criticized "Smykkelov" in 2016 which lets us confiscate any values asylum seekers have over 10.000 DKK (e.g. jewelry as the name says, but never actually used for jewelry just cash) in 2016. It has been hardly used (10 times in the first 3 years), but it had enormous press coverage. The largest left party (and the party of current PM) voted for it.

The previously largest nationalist party (DF) have never been in power, despite existing for 30 years and getting 20+% of the vote in 2015 -- at most they were a support party to the right-wing government.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#129

Post by TheChaplain »

rich_sasha wrote: post #98
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #80

I didn't watch the video, but have read other reports, and it's worth noting that the context for this is the Labour Party conference, which starts on Sunday. The UK govt are under pressure from the tories and Reform to do something about people entering the UK from France by crossing the channel in small boats. Nothing much seems to be working. So this announcement is about trying to control the narrative by making…

The small boats crossing are a small fraction of immigration. Some Google number claims 37k people got in this way in 2024. With net migration hovering around 0.8-1m people per year, arrivals must be well above this number (surely some people are leaving, making the net number smaller). But even then, this is less than 5% of the legal immigration, and probably a lot less than that. I'm not saying it doesn't need addr…

Uhm are you sure about those numbers?

0.8m is like on the average a whole county in the UK, and such massive influx would destroy the housing- and job market. Not to mention pressure on schools and healthcare.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#130

Post by curtisblaine »

mrtksn wrote: post #109
curtisblaine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is beside the point. The point is that they are using a loophole in the asylum process to stay illegally for more time than they're allowed. After they successfully do that, they of course have to work illegally (endangering themselves and others), they don't (can't) pay taxes, and they end up sending all the money they earned abroad. All attempts to close this loophole by various governments have been unfruitfu…

Instantly fixable by letting people work legally.

Countries have a right of controlling immigration in their territory. Letting illegal immigrants stay and work essentially negates that right.
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