Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high • Hacker News Board

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#241

Post by doctorpangloss » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:39 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #209

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

> Unless the law changes...

That's it?

I don't know. Doesn't sound like a very big obstacle to me. But I don't think AI will replace radiologists even if there was a law that said like, "blah blah blah, automated reports, can't be sued, blah blah." I personally think the consulting work they do is really valuable and very difficult to automate, we would be in an AGI world where radiologists get replaced, which seems unlikely.

The bigger picture is that we are pretty much obligated to treat people medically, which is a good thing, so there is a lot more interest in automating healthcare than say, law, where spending isn't really compulsory.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#242

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:43 PM UTC

My anecdote (not data): I took a friend to the emergency room on Sunday,after a back crackup on a bicycle. Big bruise and swelling above the left eye socket and on the chin. Both hands sore and tender and stabbing pain when any pressure was put on them.

The radiologist said No Fracture! So treat for concussion and release. Two days later, back with unendurable head pain. Reexamine: oh, sorry, yes, fractures. Morphine.

Wtf? Are the radiologists so overworked they can only glance at a test? Or was an AI at fault? I'll never know.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#243

Post by smrtinsert » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:44 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #209

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

At some point medical equipment is certified in some way for use. Could the same happen for imaging AIs?

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#244

Post by vkou » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:44 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #242

My anecdote (not data): I took a friend to the emergency room on Sunday,after a back crackup on a bicycle. Big bruise and swelling above the left eye socket and on the chin. Both hands sore and tender and stabbing pain when any pressure was put on them. The radiologist said No Fracture! So treat for concussion and release. Two days later, back with unendurable head pain. Reexamine: oh, sorry, yes, fractures. Morphine…

Could have just been one that sucks at their job. Half of people who have one are below average at doing it.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#245

Post by rendx » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:49 PM UTC

Huh? Since when does the word 'radiologist' not already imply being human? Did I miss a memo? The original title "AI isn't replacing radiologists" makes more sense, or why not "Demand for radiologists is at an all-time high".

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#246

Post by hnav » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

code_biologist wrote: post #199

hnav wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though the gulf between Waymo and the next runner up is huge, it too isn't quite ready for primetime IMO. Waymos still suffer from erratic behavior at pickup/dropoff, around pedestrians, badly marked roads and generally jam on the brakes at the first sign of any ambiguity. As much as I appreciate the safety-first approach (table stakes really, they'd get their license pulled if they ever caused a fatality) I am…

I've seen a lot of young people (teens especially) cross active streets or cross in front of Waymos on scooters knowing that they'll stop. I try not to do anything too egregious, but I myself have begun using Waymo's conservative behavior as a good way to merge into ultra high density traffic when I'm in a car, or to cross busy streets when they only have a "yield to pedestrian" crosswalk rather than a full crosswalk…

Simultaneously, Waymo is adopting more human-like behavior like creeping at red lights and cutting in front of timid drivers as it jockeys for position.

I still think that Google isn't capable of scaling a rideshare program because it sucks at interfacing with customers. I suspect that Uber's long-term strategy of "take the money out of investors' and drivers' pockets to capture the market until automation gets there" might still come to fruition (see Austin and Atlanta), just perhaps not with Uber's ownership of the technology.

On the other hand Google has been hard at work trying to make its way into cars via Android automotive so I totally see it resigning to just providing a reference sensor-suite and a car "Operating System" to manufacturers who want a turnkey smart-car with L3 self-driving

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#247

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:56 PM UTC

captainkrtek wrote: post #196

bsder wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymos still suffer from erratic behavior at pickup/dropoff, around pedestrians, badly marked roads and generally jam on the brakes at the first sign of any ambiguity. As do most of the ridesharing drivers I interact with nowadays, sadly. The difference is that Waymo has a trajectory that is getting better while human rideshare drivers have a trajectory that is getting worse.

Society accepts that humans make mistakes and considers it unavoidable, but there exists a much higher bar expected of computers/automation/etc. even if a waymo is objectively safer in terms of incidents per miles driven, one fatality makes headlines and adds scrutiny about “was it avoidable?”, whereas humans we just shrug. I think the theme of this extends to all areas where we are placing technology to make decisio…

> there exists a much higher bar expected of computers/automation/etc. even if a waymo is objectively safer in terms of incidents per miles driven, one fatality makes headlines and adds scrutiny about “was it avoidable?”

This doesn’t seem to be happening. One, there are shockingly few fatalities. Two, we’ve sort of accepted the tradeoff.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#248

Post by hnav » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:56 PM UTC

nebula8804 wrote: post #198

hnav wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though the gulf between Waymo and the next runner up is huge, it too isn't quite ready for primetime IMO. Waymos still suffer from erratic behavior at pickup/dropoff, around pedestrians, badly marked roads and generally jam on the brakes at the first sign of any ambiguity. As much as I appreciate the safety-first approach (table stakes really, they'd get their license pulled if they ever caused a fatality) I am…

I honestly don't think we will have a clear answer to this question anytime soon. People will be in their camps and thats that. Just to clarify, have you ridden in a Waymo? It didn't seem entirely clear if you just experienced living with Waymo or have ridden in it. I tried it a few times in LA. What an amazing magical experience. I do agree with most of your assertions. It is just a super careful driver but it does…

Waymo has replaced my (infrequent) use of Uber/Lyft in 80% of cases ever since they opened to the public via waitlist. The product is pretty good most of the time, I just think the odd long-tail behaviors become a guarantee as you scale up.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#249

Post by mulmen » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 10:57 PM UTC

thewebguyd wrote: post #211

treespace8 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After learning that the Amazon Go store was power by hundreds of people watching video because the AI could not handle it was a real eye opener for me. Is this why Waymo is slow to expand, not enough remote drivers? Maybe that is where we need to be focused, better remote driving?

> Maybe that is where we need to be focused, better remote driving? I think maybe we can and should focus on both. Better remote driving can be extended into other equipment operations as well - remote control of excavators and other construction equipment. Imagine road construction, or building projects, being able to be done remotely while we wait for better automation to develop.

This is an interesting idea. What are the expected benefits? Off the top of my head:

* Saves on commute or travel time.

* Job sites no longer need to provide housing for workers.

* Allows the vehicles to stay in operation continuously, currently they shut down for breaks.

* With automation multiple vehicles could be operated at once.

The biggest benefits seem to be in resource extraction but I believe the vehicles there are already highly automated. At least the haul trucks.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#250

Post by mulmen » Thu, Sep 25, 2025, 11:00 PM UTC

1718627440 wrote: post #148

CodesInChaos wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> thought that trucking industry is changed forever What I find really crazy is that most trains are still driven by humans.

Most work is actually in oversight and getting the train to run when parts fail. When running millions of machines 24/7 there is always a failing part. Also understanding gesticulation humans and running wildlife is not yet (fully) automatable.

How does a human conductor stop a train from hitting a deer? Do they spot it from 3 miles away?

The THSR I rode solved the wildlife problems with a big windshield wiper. Not sure what else there is to do. It’s a train.