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Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

481–490 of 894 posts

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#481
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like debating the definition of homicide or rape. There is no nuance here.

Homicide? Like abortion? No nuance? Rape? Like age of consent being different across regions and time? No nuance? Like how half the planet laughs when a boy gets molested by his attractive teacher and the other half calls it rape?

There is no nuance in dehumanization.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, what do you think is their own land? And what exactly makes you think it is their land? Are you aware that most of the Arabs of the Holy Land came around the same time period as the Jews? There were Arabs living here previously, of course, as were there living here Jews. Half a century before the British mandate, Jerusalem was already Jewish majority. > where they've lived for thousands of years. Th…

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This is such a perversion of the history of the holy land that I don't even see fit to correct any of it. Any reader here is welcome to read about the Muslim conquests, of which the Muslims are extremely proud.

In fact, part of that pride is calling it an the Arab conquest, even though the colonizer - Salah AlDin - was a Kurd and not an Arab.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make this a bit clearer for me? Quantify it? How much hardship should someone endure to make up for voting for Hamas? Losing a home? A limb? A friend? A child?

Historically you can look at Germany in 1944 and 1945 and get an idea about what people think is fair. Hope this helps.

Why can’t you just say what you mean? Are you embarrassed?

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP’s point is Israel’s legitimate surveillance needs have risen alongside their credibility crashing. This isn’t a simply reduced problem unless one has a horse in the race.

I understand that, and I am sympathetic to those needs to some degree. They do have increased legitimate surveillance needs. But they've lost all of their good will. Partnering with them is too morally and PR-ily hazardous. I am not saying Israel is nearly as bad as Nazi Germany, but I think this argument is overall kind of pointless because one could easily have said that Nazi Germany had greatly increased legitimat…

> one could easily have said that Nazi Germany had greatly increased legitimate surveillance needs after they invaded Poland

This is an interesting comparison—thank you.

That said, did the Poles launch cross-border attacks on German civilians? The closest I can come up with is Bloody Sunday [1], which was an attack on ethnically German civilians, but not a cross-border incursion. (Granted, we can only observe this ex post facto, so your argument still stands.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939)

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder if a company like microsoft has any real concern over people tweeting negative things about it. It seems like companies are finally realizing a lot of it can just be ignored, but with microsoft specifically, what’s the risk? Who in a position to deny ms enough money that they’d care or even notice is going to decide to do it based on people protesting?

I can't speak to Microsoft specifically, but bad press has certainly hurt other similar companies (eg Meta) when it comes to hiring. BDS is also about as formidable as a boycott movement gets.

You know a boycott movement is effective when Israel has tens of lobbies like the IAF that are dedicated entirely to passing legislation to make it illegal. Germany has already passed it and the UK is unfortunately looking very close.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#486
post #473

I think Cloud providers should be common carriers. I don’t think that it is a good thing when a company can make an arbitrary decision and disable functionality that you have put millions of dollars and thousands or tens of thousands of person hours into. I think that the only reasons that a cloud provider should be permitted to use to justify termination of service, are illegal activity (in the country of service),…

MS is saying they violated terms of service. Are you saying common carriers shouldn't have terms of service?

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word genocide has a legal definition, it’s not up for discussion or debate. What is happening in Gaza is a genocide according to genocide scholars.

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I encourage you to step outside of the Israeli echo chamber of lies and deception.

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

Gaza: Top independent rights probe alleges Israel committed genocide https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/09/1165856

ICC issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant and Hamas commander https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157286

Israel is a naziesque society through and through.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel claims that they “don’t want to kill civilians” but historically have not substantially changed course when the killings became grotesquely excessive. It’s also arguably true that they have never even sincerely investigated any issues. Israel just gets more aggressive in the murder and bombing.

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A 1:1 to 2:1 civilian to combatant ratio is reported by John Spencer, urban war researcher and chair at the Modern War Institute.

Spencer has said it will take years of research to confirm this ratio and how it was achieved. He considers it important to understand because the typical ratio in urban wars, including wars the U.S. has prosecuted, exceeds 6 innocent civilians killed per enemy combatant killed. Some urban wars see 12 innocent civilians killed per combatant killed.

I think all of these ratios are horrifying. A low ratio can't be considered either good or exculpatory, as to whether violations of international humanitarian law have occurred. Civilians always bear a disproportionate impact in all urban wars. The case studies that have been completed are worth reading.

https://mwi.westpoint.edu/urban-warfare-project/urban-warfar...

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder if a company like microsoft has any real concern over people tweeting negative things about it. It seems like companies are finally realizing a lot of it can just be ignored, but with microsoft specifically, what’s the risk? Who in a position to deny ms enough money that they’d care or even notice is going to decide to do it based on people protesting?

I can't speak to Microsoft specifically, but bad press has certainly hurt other similar companies (eg Meta) when it comes to hiring. BDS is also about as formidable as a boycott movement gets.

> BDS is also about as formidable as a boycott movement gets.

Barely gotten started.

This is what made the difference in South Africa, but the boycotts were much bigger

Amazon, Google and Oracle will have to boycott too. I am boycotting them

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#490

What would happen in a hypothetical scenario where Microsoft cut off everything [1] they can for all of Israel - no Azure, no Office, no Outlook, no Exchange, no SQL Server, no Windows, no Xbox, no ...? Depending on how many things they can make unusable, I would imagine that this would be pretty bad, probably even causing some deaths because of affected infrastructure. [1] Not sure what they could actually make unus…

That would never happen.

Israel has too much influence over the US.

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