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Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

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Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#41

Post by sfilmeyer »

coder543 wrote: post #13
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Outside air isn’t a panacea. There is often plenty of pollution right outside your window unless you live on an idyllic beachfront property. The humidity level outside is also rarely what you want in your home, whether it is too high or too low. Much better than cracking a window is the use of ERVs (energy recovery ventilators) and air filters on the incoming air. An ERV is a fairly simple device that exchanges air w…

Can you link an example of a window unit ERV? I tried searching briefly, and came across some folks hacking together units to make them work with windows or adding their own ducting, but nothing analogous to a simple window air conditioning unit. As a renter of an apartment in a very much not modern home, I don't really see anything that seems like it would work.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#42

Post by capitol_ »

cameronh90 wrote: post #11
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit. The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c. I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, t…

Why do you need it to be cooler than 18c?

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#43

Post by yabones »

meindnoch wrote: post #26

I wonder what the air quality inside a submarine is like, after spending 60 days submerged. How does it smell?

I've toured a '60s era Cold War diesel-electric sub that's been a museum for ~20 years, and it still absolutely reeked of diesel. Combine that with the smell of a couple dozen dudes that haven't showered properly in weeks, and your answer would be not good.

The long-term health outcomes are probably significantly worse for people that served in diesel subs than nuclear because of the constant exposure to fossil fuel volatiles. Just being in there for a 20 minute tour made me feel like I just smoked 20 cigarettes.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#44

Post by mschuster91 »

homebrewer wrote: post #15
privatelypublic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those monitors are useless. Unless they're VERY expensive they only show a change over a short period of time

My cheap Chinese PM2.5 sensors (PMS7003) installed both outside and inside provide accurate readings all year round. They track official government data very closely (monitored by expensive and certified equipment that goes through calibration every year). My problem with this advice is not that it's difficult to measure pollution levels (it really isn't), but that there's no "fresh air" outside for many of us. In ma…

> and with a purifier the difference in particulate levels can run into 100× or more during winter

No surprise. A lot of homes are still being heated by combustion. Gas heating is relatively clean if the burners are properly maintained, oil burners are a hit and miss, but everything else... wood pellets are often declared as the "green" alternative, but that's only valid for CO2 (and even there, the actual benefit for the climate is massively debated) - these things spew an awful lot of particulate emissions, brick-wood ovens are even worse, especially when people illegally throw in too humid firewood or, worse, garbage that has no business being incinerated outside of an industrial high temperature facility with proper exhaust stack treatments.

Unfortunately, as you say, in many parts of the world people are too poor to afford proper heating fuel sources, and it's costing them and their countries so much productivity and money in the long run... and in developed countries, there still are a sizable amount of people who have no idea how to properly heat their ovens, how to prepare their firewood or that just outright skirt garbage disposal fees. Jörg Kachelmann, founder of the weather service Meteomedia, has extensively written about that topic in the past [1] and keeps ranting on social media about it under #holzofengate.

[1] https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_84671908/kac...

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#45

Post by twothamendment »

dewey wrote: post #17
privatelypublic wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those monitors are useless. Unless they're VERY expensive they only show a change over a short period of time

There's a spectrum between "useless" and "good enough", for most people it acts more of an awareness tool and for that it does the job well.

Exactly this. Is my Awair Element perfectly accurate? No, but VOC at 200 or less when the windows have been open (on a good air day) looks very different than 3,000 when we finish cooking something on the stove.

Maybe my numbers should be 100 and 10,000, but it doesn't matter, I know when I need to turn the air exchanger on turbo and when we are back to "normal".

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#46

Post by mschuster91 »

musha68k wrote: post #40
mschuster91 wrote: post #38

> The findings suggest that regular ventilation alone may be insufficient to remove many indoor contaminants. Physical cleaning activities such as vacuuming, mopping and dusting are necessary to effectively remove compounds with high partition coefficients from surface reservoirs. Yup. Indoor smoker homes are the worst because cleaning alone is often not enough. Cheap landlords just slap a coat of paint on to hide th…

This is also one of the saddest aspects of retro computing. Most listings fail to mention whether previous owners were smokers, and most sellers either aren't sensitive to and/or haven't experienced the off-gassing that occurs once devices warm up through actual use. So this is actually the main reason I'm thrilled about the MiSTer project and the growing number and variety of FPGA-based clones being released today.

And some things like arcade machines, you often can't even get them in "no smoker" conditions as they've been installed in arcades, pubs and other venues where a lot of the attendees smoke.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#47

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

capitol_ wrote: post #42
cameronh90 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit. The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c. I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, t…

Why do you need it to be cooler than 18c?

> The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c.

They're trying to heat it.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#48

Post by egman_ekki »

capitol_ wrote: post #42
cameronh90 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit. The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c. I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, t…

Why do you need it to be cooler than 18c?

I think they want more than 18c. 18c is pretty cold to sit in for a prolonged time.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#49

Post by elric »

coder543 wrote: post #13
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Outside air isn’t a panacea. There is often plenty of pollution right outside your window unless you live on an idyllic beachfront property. The humidity level outside is also rarely what you want in your home, whether it is too high or too low. Much better than cracking a window is the use of ERVs (energy recovery ventilators) and air filters on the incoming air. An ERV is a fairly simple device that exchanges air w…

I installed an ERV system in my very small and very old home. It was quite a bit of work, but nothing terribly difficult. Finding a suitable spot for the ERV unit was the biggest challenge: it is quite bulky and not silent, and you need to be able to route ducting to it from all over the house.

It's easily the favourite thing in my home. It filters the outdoor air, reducing pollen and mosquitoes. It keeps out excess moisture in summer. I don't have to open a window when it's cold. It automatically goes into overdrive after a particularly steamy shower. It's great.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#50

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

amelius wrote: post #12
crazygringo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...to then re-release them gradually over the next days and months. So, no.

Then you need a better sponge.

Yes, they are bad sponges, that's the issue, both that they are sponges and that they are bad at it.
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