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Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

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Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#11

Post by cameronh90 »

crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit.

The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c.

I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, then that's not even going to help much.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#13

Post by coder543 »

crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Outside air isn’t a panacea. There is often plenty of pollution right outside your window unless you live on an idyllic beachfront property. The humidity level outside is also rarely what you want in your home, whether it is too high or too low.

Much better than cracking a window is the use of ERVs (energy recovery ventilators) and air filters on the incoming air.

An ERV is a fairly simple device that exchanges air with the outside while mitigating the loss of energy and humidity.

Any modern home build likely has an ERV as part of the design, but it’s not like they can’t be retrofitted, and I’ve even seen some DIY-friendly window unit ERVs (but I’ve never heard if those are any good).

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#14

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

[deleted]

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#15

Post by homebrewer »

privatelypublic wrote: post #9
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Those monitors are useless. Unless they're VERY expensive they only show a change over a short period of time

My cheap Chinese PM2.5 sensors (PMS7003) installed both outside and inside provide accurate readings all year round. They track official government data very closely (monitored by expensive and certified equipment that goes through calibration every year).

My problem with this advice is not that it's difficult to measure pollution levels (it really isn't), but that there's no "fresh air" outside for many of us. In many parts of the world, the air is significantly worse outside than inside even without running an air purifier (and with a purifier the difference in particulate levels can run into 100× or more during winter).

Some years ago I looked at the few papers that measured the difference in gaseous pollutants (like NO2 and SO2) inside and outside with windows open and windows closed, and for some reason closed windows do provide limited protection against them. Nobody really understands why AFAIK, it shouldn't work that way since they're mixed with air in a gaseous mixture from which they can't be filtered out without a specialized chemical filter, but it does help.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#16

Post by b112 »

cameronh90 wrote: post #11
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit. The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c. I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, t…

Get a heat recovery exchanger.

https://natural-resources.canada.ca/stories/spotlight-energy...

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#17

Post by dewey »

privatelypublic wrote: post #9
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

Those monitors are useless. Unless they're VERY expensive they only show a change over a short period of time

There's a spectrum between "useless" and "good enough", for most people it acts more of an awareness tool and for that it does the job well.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#19

Post by agwa »

fnordian_slip wrote: post #6
crazygringo wrote: post #3

The more we study it, the more we learn how harmful the air inside our homes is. That's why fresh air is key. Crack a window or two open. Buy an air monitor that monitors CO2 (good proxy for overall freshness), VOCs (sometimes these build up much faster than CO2), and PM2.5. If CO2 or VOCs are high, open windows more. If PM2.5 is high and coming from outdoors, turn on an air filter. Yes, this means your heating and c…

I bought an aranet 4, it's quite eye opening how you sometimes get a lot of CO2 buildup without even noticing. I mostly solve any issues with VOC by "Stosslueften", but if that's not enough because the air quality outside is too bad, a CR box is an effective, easy to build and almost perfectly silent design, especially if you do it with decent quality pc fans.

A CR box only removes particulates, not VOCs. To remove VOCs, you need a filter with many pounds of activated carbon.

Re: Permeable materials in homes act as sponges for harmful chemicals: study

#20

Post by cameronh90 »

b112 wrote: post #16
cameronh90 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge with opening the window isn't even the cost - which is substantial - from about £250/month to £400/month if I have my windows open even a little bit. The bigger challenge is with my windows open, my heating just can't even keep up! It'll be maxed out and only 18c. I do the German-style luften twice a day, but if our interiors are just absorbing the compounds and releasing it when the windows are shut, t…

Get a heat recovery exchanger. https://natural-resources.canada.ca/stories/spotlight-energy...

Indeed, but a traditional MVHR would require ductwork which isn't common in the UK and often there isn't really any space to route it.

I have been investigating easier to retrofit decentralised MVHR systems such as the Prana Recuperator, Ventaxia Tempra and the Blauberg Vento. They can be noisy (not a problem for me, I don't mind noise) and quite expensive as you have to fit a number of units in different rooms, but still easier than retrofitting ducting.

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