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The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

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Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#41

Post by timr »

throw8398394 wrote: post #14
12_throw_away wrote: post #4

Here's an article from late August with some detail [1], including the affected states: New York, Massachusetts, Alaska, Arizona, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon and Vermont. I can't find anything about it on the CDC website though. Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of American…

In my experience dog owners just do not care. Vaccine costs time and money. The same with training. Most dog owners are just lazy, and do not care. Adding some sophisticated explanations on top of that is pointless.

This is not my experience anywhere in the US. We don't have a problem with stray dogs, rabies vaccination is ubiquitous, and I've never heard of anyone resisting it for their pets.

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#42

Post by [deleted] »

cperciva wrote: post #24
bawolff wrote: post #20

> six people have died from rabies nationwide since September 2024, a US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention spokesperson confirmed to CNN. In addition, the CDC is tracking 14 potential outbreaks in 20 states, So is that high or low? It would be useful to know what the median and max cases per year has been over the last few decades. 14 potential doesn't sound that bad if we're investigating them out of an abu…

According to the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases, "about 1-3 human rabies cases are reported in the US each year": https://www.nfid.org/infectious-disease/rabies/ I would say that 6 deaths is definitely high compared to 1-3 cases .

[deleted]

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#43

Post by throw834949977 »

Arainach wrote: post #34
throw8398394 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people do not care about basic hygiene or safety, but somehow develop and practise complex medical opinions!

Have you talked to the kind of American voter who spouts antivax nonsense in the last decade? Because "these people but somehow develop and practice complex medical opinions " is literally true for millions.

Have you talked to average American dog owner? They leave their "kids" locked in tiny apartments alone for 10 hours a day, while working. Are not bothered if their "pet" is neurotic mess. If it becomes too annoying, it gets dumped into shelter or on streets. If it dies, it gets replaced in weeks!

You are really giving dog owners too much agency!

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#44

Post by oooyay »

A lot of intellectually lazy comments on this post.

Yes, there is a rise in rabies cases. In 2021 we experienced 2008 levels. The rise mostly has to do with domestic animal contact with bats: https://archive.cdc.gov/www_cdc_gov/media/releases/2022/p010...

It is also true that 40% of dog owning households don't get their dogs vaccinated because they don't believe animal vaccines are medically necessary or effective. 37% of dog owners also believe vaccines can give their dog autism: https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/nearly-half-of-dog...

There is no scientific evidence vaccines give dogs or humans autism.

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#45

Post by komali2 »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #15
12_throw_away wrote: post #4

Here's an article from late August with some detail [1], including the affected states: New York, Massachusetts, Alaska, Arizona, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon and Vermont. I can't find anything about it on the CDC website though. Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of American…

We should rebrand vaccines as "freedom shots" and get AOC to play along and call them problematic.

The potato trick.

https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popu...

> Still, even after all of Parmentier’s work, the French feared and hated potatoes. But Parmentier was undeterred. Determined to prove to his people that potatoes were, in fact, good, he started holding publicity stunts that included potatoes. He hosted stylish dinners featuring the maligned tuber, inviting such celebrities as Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier. Once, Parmentier made a bouquet of potato flowers to give to the King and Queen of France.

> With the publicity stunts failing to popularize potatoes, Parmentier tried a new tactic. King Louis XVI granted him a large plot of land at Sablons in 1781. Parmentier turned this land into a potato patch, then hired heavily armed guards to make a great show of guarding the potatoes. His thinking was that people would notice the guards and assume that potatoes must be valuable. Anything so fiercely guarded had to be worth stealing, right? To that end, Parmentier’s guards were given orders to allow thieves to get away with potatoes. If any enterprising potato bandits offered a bribe in exchange for potatoes, the guards were instructed to take the bribe, no matter how large or small.

> Sure enough, before too long, people began stealing Parmentier’s potatoes.

I've never known if the myth was true, but I've always wanted to try the trick with something to see if it works.

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#46

Post by timr »

oooyay wrote: post #44

A lot of intellectually lazy comments on this post. Yes, there is a rise in rabies cases. In 2021 we experienced 2008 levels. The rise mostly has to do with domestic animal contact with bats: https://archive.cdc.gov/www_cdc_gov/media/releases/2022/p010... It is also true that 40% of dog owning households don't get their dogs vaccinated because they don't believe animal vaccines are medically necessary or effective .…

> It is also true that 40% of dog owning households don't get their dogs vaccinated because they don't believe animal vaccines are medically necessary or effective.

First of all, no, that's not what this says. The exact quote is:

> according to the survey results, nearly 40 percent of dog owners believe that canine vaccines are unsafe, more than 20 percent believe these vaccines are ineffective, and 30 percent consider them to be medically unnecessary.

In fact, when you look at the paper they're citing [1], they notably do not state if the respondent actually vaccinated their pet. Not sure why....

(EDIT: Actually, it's worse than that! I found a draft of the full text, and a full 84% of respondents vaccinated their pets for Rabies! [2] You can't make this stuff up. See my other comment for more [3]).

Second, it's based on a YouGov (aka, a web survey) of 2200 people:

> The survey was conducted between March 30 and April 10, 2023 among 2,200 dog owners who answered questions through the research sampling firm YouGov.

I would be very hesitant to draw any conclusions from this at all.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02644...

[2] https://ideas.repec.org/p/osf/socarx/qmbkv.html

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45329845

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#47

Post by kulahan »

throw834949977 wrote: post #43
Arainach wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you talked to the kind of American voter who spouts antivax nonsense in the last decade? Because "these people but somehow develop and practice complex medical opinions " is literally true for millions.

Have you talked to average American dog owner? They leave their "kids" locked in tiny apartments alone for 10 hours a day, while working. Are not bothered if their "pet" is neurotic mess. If it becomes too annoying, it gets dumped into shelter or on streets. If it dies, it gets replaced in weeks! You are really giving dog owners too much agency!

We get it, you’re depressed. Most dog owners like their dogs and take care of them to the best of their ability.

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#48

Post by kulahan »

komali2 wrote: post #45
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should rebrand vaccines as "freedom shots" and get AOC to play along and call them problematic.

The potato trick. https://www.farmersalmanac.com/parmentier-made-potatoes-popu... > Still, even after all of Parmentier’s work, the French feared and hated potatoes. But Parmentier was undeterred. Determined to prove to his people that potatoes were, in fact, good, he started holding publicity stunts that included potatoes. He hosted stylish dinners featuring the maligned tuber, inviting such celebrities as Benjamin…

Maybe a more succinct and modern example: don’t put something on the curb with “free!”, put “$50!” And it’ll get stolen in no time

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#49

Post by kulahan »

mulmen wrote: post #5
12_throw_away wrote: post #4

Here's an article from late August with some detail [1], including the affected states: New York, Massachusetts, Alaska, Arizona, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, North Carolina, Oregon and Vermont. I can't find anything about it on the CDC website though. Edited to add another charming detail from the article: "A 2023 study published in the journal Vaccine found in a nationally representative sample of American…

Is autism a thing for dogs? I have literally never thought about this but I guess it could be a thing.

There is probably some analogous disability, but I doubt there is anything identical.

Re: The US Is Tracking 14 Potential Rabies Outbreaks in 20 States

#50

Post by jandrewrogers »

darkamaul wrote: post #23

The short-term effects of relaxing vaccine requirements won’t be obvious right away, but the consequences will likely compound over time. I don’t know how much time of lower coverage it will take before we start to see measles, rabies, or others become regular problems again. If you’re traveling, it’s more important than ever to make sure your own vaccines are fully up to date. And if you’re in a high-risk group, the…

Rabies vaccines have never been required. It is disingenuous to even imply otherwise. Humans are only given a rabies vaccine if there is evidence of exposure. Exaggerating the issue just gives average people reasons to disbelieve you.

Turning vaccines into quasi-religious totems is counter-productive. It should be a pure cost-benefit analysis. I am way more vaccinated than most people, side effects of my interesting career, but I am under no delusions that much of it is not an almost total waste as a matter of science.

Measles, yes. Rabies, lol no. If you conflate them people will rightly not trust you.

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