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When the job search becomes impossible

jeffwofford.com

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Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#451

Post by putzdown »

triMichael wrote: post #432

My wife is on phase 3. She graduated with a computer science degree in January, and then her dad passed away. The estate was a mess so she ended up spending time figuring that out. Then, we found and fixed a medical issue that had been draining her energy. She's doing a lot better now, but as a result she has an 8 month gap on her resume. She also never took an internship so that she could finish a semester earlier w…

You may have given up too early. For me the key part of this story is that she made a personal connection willing to guide her through and to overlook technicalities (like not having enough experience). The fact that she then reached a different person who was a jerk is a matter of chance. I’d you find a way to keep making these personal connections, she’ll get a job eventually. Also: it sounds like you’re very supportive and invested: good on you. She’s not alone.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#452

Post by [deleted] »

raffael_de wrote: post #42
TrackerFF wrote: post #12

I've been thinking about job searching lately, maybe a bit too much. I'm employed, so it is not any immediate concern for me, but one has to think ahead. Between age discrimination that starts after 50, and how difficult the job search seemingly is...some people will have to work at least until they're 70. That's a solid 15-20 years more, after the job hunting is an uphill battle. If the work search is hard while you…

> If the work search is hard while you're at your peak, professionally speaking, how are you supposed to be stay positive after that? Life never gets easier with age. I guess that's just something we all have to come to terms with eventually.

[deleted]

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#453

Post by staticautomatic »

saulpw wrote: post #218
hansvm wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be missing something. 1200 real applications are hard to sort through. 1200 mostly fake applications are much easier. Hiring is a high-leverage activity, and it's absolutely worth spending a couple hours going through those by hand.

For 1200 applications, a couple hours translates to less than 10 seconds per application. In the age of LLMs, why do you think you'd be able to discern whether an application was fake in 10 seconds? Remember, it's not "obviously fake", it's "designed to con you" fake.

The AI-written cover letters are a dead giveaway and you can often spot them in less than 10 seconds easy, but it’s still a terrible slog.

If you don’t believe me, try clustering 1,000 cover letters.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#454

Post by staticautomatic »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #159
jofer wrote: post #148

As someone who's recently been hiring (sorry folks, position was filled just a few days ago), it's wild to me how distorted things have become. We had 1200 applications for an extremely niche role. A huge amount were clearly faked resumes that far too closely matched the job description to be realistic. Another huge portion were just unqualified. The irony is that there actually _are_ a ton of exceptionally qualified…

Would you have found it reasonable for interested candidates to have reached out directly instead of just submitting a resume to the ATS? With the AI spam etc. it feels like the usefulness of these automated systems is quickly diminishing. Hiring feels broken right now.

In theory, sure, but in reality, please god no. 99% of LinkedIn messages you get as a hiring manager are “Hi I applied to your role”, “Hi I applied to your role and I’d be a great fit when can we talk?”, “Hi I’m really interested in learning about your work can we meet for coffee?”, or “Hi I’d be a great fit for your role because .”

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#455

Post by riku_iki »

eleveriven wrote: post #358
bob1029 wrote: post #354

I started working on shipping a game to Steam after I realized how broken the market was. I realize this might sound even more stressful than a job search for something like a backend role, but I feel like I have a better chance than average based upon cattle-like, low-effort trends in the space and my willingness to endure certain kinds of suffering that most indie game developers aren't even aware of. Worst case sc…

Even if the game doesn’t take off, just having a shipped product under your belt is a signal. It shows follow-through, creativity, and self-direction

the question is if this signal will go through all job market clutter (fake resumes, AI in all places, etc)

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#456

Post by 2ICofafireteam »

jofer wrote: post #148

As someone who's recently been hiring (sorry folks, position was filled just a few days ago), it's wild to me how distorted things have become. We had 1200 applications for an extremely niche role. A huge amount were clearly faked resumes that far too closely matched the job description to be realistic. Another huge portion were just unqualified. The irony is that there actually _are_ a ton of exceptionally qualified…

>A huge amount were clearly faked resumes that far too closely matched the job description to be realistic.

In government work programs in British Columbia, we were taught to address every point or requirement in a job listing that we could. Is this tactic clearly distinguishable from clearly faked?

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#457

Post by monkeyelite »

astura wrote: post #431
monkeyelite wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In software? Yes - no matter which part of the country. Maybe a few hold outs in the 90k.

The jr's in my company are making $60-$70k. Anyway, the government actually compiles this information https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... >The median annual wage for software developers was $133,080 in May 2024. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $79,850, and the hi…

Yep, those numbers agree with my comment. Note that also includes QA in those numbers and roles which are not software engineer.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#458

Post by hnfong »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #445
hnfong wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're projecting your negative past experiences and trying very hard not to understand the GP's point. It doesn't matter what the person hired thinks. The important part is whether those making hiring decisions are hiring people with "stellar reputation". In your case, "everyone knows he can't code", so he doesn't have stellar reputation. If we apply this scenario to what the GP said, no company would have h…

I understand just fine. There is no objective descriptor of a person. The engineering manager probably thinks he’s a perfect candidate. > In your case, "everyone knows he can't code", so he doesn't have stellar reputation Yes that’s what we figured out after he got hired. He obviously didn’t have a reputation within our org before he got hired. All we had to go off was the engineering managers opinion. Are you guys r…

> > In your case, "everyone knows he can't code", so he doesn't have stellar reputation

> Yes that’s what we figured out after he got hired. He obviously didn’t have a reputation within our org before he got hired. All we had to go off was the engineering managers opinion.

Right, *he doesn't have stellar reputation*, and he got hired. The comment you replied to said "hire people with stellar reputation". I'm still not sure what you're missing here or why you think this is an applicable scenario.

> Are you guys really shocked that given the freedom to, people would rather hire their friends and people they know would do them favours rather than the “objectively best candidate for the job”?

I wouldn't be shocked, but I also don't think that what the "GP" advocated for. You might say this would lead to people using it as an excuse for nepotism, but if the engineering manager is the kind of person who has poor or malicious judgment and can't make a correct hiring decision by himself, then you're cooked no matter what.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#459

Post by em-bee »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #285
jppope wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The process is so broken right now that we're 100% back to nepotism Just want to comment on this, because I think think favoring unknown candidates is a mistake we make too often, and in fact the "normal" process is a disaster on both sides for this reason. Nepotism or Cronyism is granting resources, patronage, jobs to someone you know instead of a qualified candidate. In many industries this is how they function b…

> I just want to say that things like reputation and network matter... and thats not really "nepotism" I strongly agree with this, and I'm glad you put it so clearly. If you've been in your industry say 10 years or more, you should have built a reputation by that point that makes people say "I want to work with that person again, or I'd recommend that person to a friend who has a job opening". (Important thing to cla…

building that reputation is harder than it sounds. you don't always work in positions where you have contact to other people that could build up your reputation. i was a contractor for a small company for 10 years. i had little contact with the employees in that company, only working with the boss. the boss was nice but he had no useful contacts into the industry. the employees that i did have contact with were to low in the hierarchy that they could provide meaningful connections even after they changed jobs.

how am i supposed to build up a reputation with that?

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#460

Post by rr808 »

titanomachy wrote: post #306
rr808 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a couple friends who haven't had steady work in years, and they still eke out a pretty reasonable existence living with friends and family What about their wife and children? Do they get to stay with them too?

No, the people I'm thinking of are childless. They recognize that their level of stability and functioning is not currently high enough to support a family. I didn't say that they're thriving and living their dream, just that they're still a couple rungs above homeless.

Yeah sorry I was just being facetious
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