Live data from Hacker News

EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

mastodon.social

171–180 of 323 posts

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#171
post #3

I can't believe with our history involving the Third Reich and the Stasi that we aren't staunchly opposed. Especially with the impending political upheaval when AfD finally gets enough votes to form a ruling government. Our politicians are insanely shortsighted and somehow don't understand the danger they're enabling.

AfD is under the watch of spionage agencies but somehow they are THE risk, not the legacy parties and bureaucracy.

[flagged]

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#173

One interesting line in the proposal: > Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes; If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed? If they have it all figured out, this exc…

It is pointless exception. If chat control will pass, everything is vulnerable by design. Or how do you distinguish if WhatsApp is installed on a phone of Joe Nobody or or a phone of a politician? You won't, unless you have some list, which can be leaked and from "do not touch credentials" will turn "target these credentials"

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#174

EU must go.

No EU means that most states would already have implemented Chat Control. Case in point, the UK.

No EU means that this law would have to passed in 27 different countries whihc would make it much harder to put this many people under surveillance.

So, in this particular case no EU would be a clear benefit because it would give us time to see the effect on this law on the neighboring countries first, just like we saw with the UK and the OSA.

I am becoming more anti-EU by the day and this is just one more nail in the coffin.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#175

People are so emotive about this issue and the online safety act in the UK. They jump to conclusions that applied to any other issue would be conspiratorial. It's not about "control" and "spying". The fact is it is policing that has been made extremely hard due to technology. silk road was only busted because the guy had his http proxy responding on the VPS's IP and not just the tor eth. Silly mistake and unfathomabl…

> "Sorry we can't catch the people sexually abusing one million children every year because they use a VPN." Bullshit. The UK police basically ignored a pedophile ring under their noses, with zero VPNs involved. I'm not expert on the matter but I'm pretty sure a E2E is not an essential part of sexual abuse.

Exactly. Where is the outcry from the same politicians about the Epstein client list being shoved under the rug by the US? Nowhere? Then they don't actually care about protecting children.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#176
post #159

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

I think the result of a referendum that would pose a question "Do you want law enforcement to be allowed access to your private messages when investigating child molesters or would you like to listen to folks who put furry teen girls in front of their websites?" would have results that you certanly wouldn't like. And they'd be democratic. So perhaps before calling something undemocratic, first make sure that the majo…

The results of this past survey are not quite as gloomy:

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/poll-72-of-citizens-oppose-...

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#177
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AfD is under the watch of spionage agencies but somehow they are THE risk, not the legacy parties and bureaucracy.

[flagged]

> It's not hard to imagine what they'll try to do, and chat-control will make it easier for them.

Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) is against Chat Control.

https://fightchatcontrol.eu/#delegates

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#178

One interesting line in the proposal: > Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes; If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed? If they have it all figured out, this exc…

It is pointless exception. If chat control will pass, everything is vulnerable by design. Or how do you distinguish if WhatsApp is installed on a phone of Joe Nobody or or a phone of a politician? You won't, unless you have some list, which can be leaked and from "do not touch credentials" will turn "target these credentials"

Haha that’s a good point, I guess another sign that they really have no clue what they are doing

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#179

One interesting line in the proposal: > Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes; If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed? If they have it all figured out, this exc…

> It's ridiculous that they keep trying this absolutely ridiculous plan over and over again. There is a certain group of politicians who are pushing for this very hard. In this case, the main thrust seems to be coming from Denmark, but from what I understand there are groups (eg. europol) pushing this from behind the scenes. They need the politicians to get it done.

Our current minister of justice in Denmark, Peter Hummelgaard, says "yes" to everything proposed by the police and intelligence agencies. Meanwhile, he has demonstrated no ability whatsoever of understanding the technical challenges of implementing something like this, and he firmly insists on the false claim that it is possible to let the police read encrypted communication without compromising the security model. He also directly spreads misinformation and downplays the significance of this by falsely claiming that Meta and others already scan E2EE chats to show us advertisements. He has said that he wants a crime-free society, and I don't doubt that that is his goal. I just also think he is too stupid to understand that a crime-free society has never existed, and if it is attainable, then it is probably not a very free society.

All in all, he seems to be a scared, stupid sock-puppet of Europol.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#180
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't think this was even possible. Can EU laws actually override the constitutional rights of member states? I was under the impression that the principle of supremacy isn't absolute and doesn't extend to overriding a country's fundamental constitutional rights. If that's not the case, the danger isn't limited to just Germany. With authoritarian regimes gaining power everywhere, it would only take a few of them w…

No. The EU isn't a federation, there's no supremacy class. The member countries are sovereign and obviously can't go against their constitutions or basic laws.

> The member countries are sovereign and obviously can't go against their constitutions or basic laws

False.

> The principle was derived from an interpretation of the European Court of Justice, which ruled that European law has priority over any contravening national law, including the constitution of a member state itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law

Post reply on HN