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EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

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Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#121

Post by munksbeer »

gadders wrote: post #8
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want."

> It's the EU way - "We will keep holding the vote until we get the result that we want."

Please inform yourself or you're in danger of letting things happen through your ignorance. The commission is not pushing this. They're acting on instructions from a certain number of elected politicians.

And, you're misleading others when you post stuff like this.

None of us posting in these topics wants this proposal to pass. And in order to fight it, you've got to be correctly informed.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#122

Post by fsflover »

outime wrote: post #91
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

>Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists Maybe it's time to start considering the current individuals in power as extremists? Just because their speech is more 'peaceful' doesn't mean their actions aren't extremist in nature.

> current individuals in power as extremists

Those who support and push anti-constitutional laws, maybe. All individuals in power, no.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#123

Post by bondarchuk »

ookdatnog wrote: post #104
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

It's not undemocratic. The behavior of the parliament reflects the reality that only a tiny minority of the population care at all about this issue. One might be tempted to blame a lack of media attention, but I don't think that's it. For example in the US, the Snowden revelations attracted tons and tons of media attention, yet it never became a major topic in elections, as far as I'm aware. No politician's career wa…

Parliamentary democracy just fundamentally has a weakness when it comes to single-issue voting. After picking a party to vote on based on housing, economic policy, crime, ..., how much voting power so to say is left for.. which guy the party says they'll send to the european commission? And what that guy's stance on chat-control is? If they're even publicizing that...

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#124

Post by impossiblefork »

patates wrote: post #13
Yokolos wrote: post #3

I can't believe with our history involving the Third Reich and the Stasi that we aren't staunchly opposed. Especially with the impending political upheaval when AfD finally gets enough votes to form a ruling government. Our politicians are insanely shortsighted and somehow don't understand the danger they're enabling.

I didn't think this was even possible. Can EU laws actually override the constitutional rights of member states? I was under the impression that the principle of supremacy isn't absolute and doesn't extend to overriding a country's fundamental constitutional rights. If that's not the case, the danger isn't limited to just Germany. With authoritarian regimes gaining power everywhere, it would only take a few of them w…

No. The EU isn't a federation, there's no supremacy class. The member countries are sovereign and obviously can't go against their constitutions or basic laws.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#125

Post by pakitan »

flumpcakes wrote: post #51

People are so emotive about this issue and the online safety act in the UK. They jump to conclusions that applied to any other issue would be conspiratorial. It's not about "control" and "spying". The fact is it is policing that has been made extremely hard due to technology. silk road was only busted because the guy had his http proxy responding on the VPS's IP and not just the tor eth. Silly mistake and unfathomabl…

> "Sorry we can't catch the people sexually abusing one million children every year because they use a VPN."

Bullshit. The UK police basically ignored a pedophile ring under their noses, with zero VPNs involved. I'm not expert on the matter but I'm pretty sure a E2E is not an essential part of sexual abuse.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#126

Post by munksbeer »

codeptualize wrote: post #26

One interesting line in the proposal: > Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes; If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed? If they have it all figured out, this exc…

> It's ridiculous that they keep trying this absolutely ridiculous plan over and over again.

There is a certain group of politicians who are pushing for this very hard. In this case, the main thrust seems to be coming from Denmark, but from what I understand there are groups (eg. europol) pushing this from behind the scenes. They need the politicians to get it done.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#127

Post by bondarchuk »

qnpnp wrote: post #116
p0w3n3d wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European Commission is not a democratic body. No EU citizen voted for them.

By this logic, most of EU governments are not democratic bodies either.

In my country I vote for a person and that person gets a seat in parliament. That is democratic according to this definition.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#128

Post by potato3732842 »

Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

>This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever.

Politicians are basically whores that only use their mouths. They'll say whatever gets them in office and keeps them there. Whether that's simping for extremists, special interests, the teacher's union, etc, etc.

The state(s) wants to snoop on the peasants' messaging and the state itself is an interest that politicians can get ahead by pandering to, no different than any other interest (from their perspective as politicians and more equal animals generally, not our perspective as less equal animals under the boot). When you're talking about elections like the EU's big interest groups, like the state, tend to dominate.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#129

Post by munksbeer »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #109
Longhanks wrote: post #4

This chat control topic is undemocratic, allegedly illegal in many jurisdictions (such as Germany), yet, keeps coming up ever and ever again, and the politicians face no consequences whatsoever. Endeavour like these make people vote for extremists, distrust the EU and democracies, or just give up on politics for good. These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the m…

European Commission is not a democratic body. No EU citizen voted for them.

The European Commission is a civil service drafting these proposals on instructions from elected politicians.

I am going to keep banging this drum because there is too much ignorance on this topic and it harms the fight against it more than helps.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#130

Post by hardlianotion »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #33
justinclift wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That approach has spectacularly backfired for the UK, as they used to do the same thing too. ;)

UK is much worse than EU in terms of privacy and encryption.

how so?
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