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The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

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Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#71

Post by greghinch »

T-hawk wrote: post #56
anonymous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a driver myself, so I haven't had to experience speed limits first hand. What's the problem with just driving under the posted speed limit?

1. Speed limits are slow and people are impatient. 55 MPH on a highway feels quite pokey in clear conditions when 75 MPH is easily possible with no appreciable loss in safety. And 30 MPH on surface streets is positively crawling. They are designed low knowing that the average user will exceed them, similar to the MPAA's tax on blank recording media where the expectation of violating is built into the product. 2. Blen…

I'll tell you what, try riding a motorcycle sometime. You'll gain a lot more appreciation of what it means for you and the people all around you to be moving at 55mph (let alone 70+) in 2 ton metal boxes, in relatively close proximity. I think the problem is not that speed limits are too slow, it's that modern cars are too comfortable, lulling you into a false sense of security.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#72

Post by stinkytaco »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
anonymous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a driver myself, so I haven't had to experience speed limits first hand. What's the problem with just driving under the posted speed limit?

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

>By itself, speeding is a victimless crime: if you hit something or someone with your car, you were doing something wrong besides just speeding.

This is so untrue I don't even know where to begin. The number of accidents that could be prevented if people would just slow down is amazing. Icy, rainy, foggy... going too fast is by far the most common cause of accidents.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/wcm/road_safety/erso/knowledge...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8702111/How-...

I said this in another reply and I will say it again, speed limits are designed by engineers, not by "untrained, politically-appointed bureaucrats". Of all the things you could come down on the government for, this is one of those first-world problems that just makes you look uninformed.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#73

Post by stinkytaco »

howcan wrote: post #44
saurik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crime "conspiracy to commit murder" does not require you, personally, to actually kill someone, nor does it even require a death to occur.

How can you make the jump from 1. copyright infringment, mainly a civil offense, that addresses speculatve monetary losses to 2. conspiracy to commit murder, a criminal offense with a history hundreds of years older than the notion of "copyright", that is aimed at preserving a human life? How do you do that? That is an enormous leap. Is it some sort of mental gymnastics? Is a human life more important than your "copy…

I don't believe he was trying to make the two morally equivalent, just to say that there is a similar legal principle in question.

I think his point is that the same legal principle applies. TPB is clearly "in-league" with copyright violators. I will not weigh in on whether this is right or not, but it's obvious from their past behaviors (blog posts, etc.). They are guilty of "conspiracy to commit copyright violation".

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#74

Post by regularfry »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
anonymous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a driver myself, so I haven't had to experience speed limits first hand. What's the problem with just driving under the posted speed limit?

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

> if you hit something or someone with your car, you were doing something wrong besides just speeding.

Only if you assume the driver has perfect knowledge of the nearby pedestrians, the road surface, what other road users are going to do before they do it, arbitrarily fast reaction speeds and flawless judgement. Oh, and brand new brakes.

Shit happens. Speeding makes it much worse when it does.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#75

Post by howcan »

stinkytaco wrote: post #73
howcan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you make the jump from 1. copyright infringment, mainly a civil offense, that addresses speculatve monetary losses to 2. conspiracy to commit murder, a criminal offense with a history hundreds of years older than the notion of "copyright", that is aimed at preserving a human life? How do you do that? That is an enormous leap. Is it some sort of mental gymnastics? Is a human life more important than your "copy…

I don't believe he was trying to make the two morally equivalent, just to say that there is a similar legal principle in question. I think his point is that the same legal principle applies. TPB is clearly "in-league" with copyright violators. I will not weigh in on whether this is right or not, but it's obvious from their past behaviors (blog posts, etc.). They are guilty of "conspiracy to commit copyright violation…

My comment is not to do with TPB. My comment has to do with mixing legal principles (or more specifcally, areas of law) that are very different and do not mix well.

I disagree that "the same legal principle" applies, but then I'm not sure we have the same principles in mind. It sounds like you are thinking about the concept of conspiracy in general, or contributory infringement. But that's not what I was referring to.

In my mind, there is a clear delineation between what is criminal offence and involves bodily harm ("illegal") and what is simply an alleged violation of intellectual property or contractual rights (e.g. "alleged copyright infringment").

When someone jumps from one to the other, as the commenter did, it is very strange. Because to me they are two very different areas of law with their own distinct philosophical origins. That's why they are almost always separated into a criminal code and a civil code.

There are plenty of examples of conspiracy to commit civil offences. Ignoring them and using an example from criminal law, and in particular homicide, one of the most heinous of all crimes, seems unnecesary. It raises the suspicion that either the commenter is using this example merely for shock value or that his knowledge of the law is very narrow and not well-informed.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#76

Post by icebraining »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
anonymous wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a driver myself, so I haven't had to experience speed limits first hand. What's the problem with just driving under the posted speed limit?

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

Governments have many powers besides cracking down on criminals, that speed limits are designed to make criminals is a baseless claim, and bureaucrats in Washington, DC don't decide them - federal speed limits were repealed in 1995. In particular, the speed limit on West Texas are set by the Texas Department of Transportation.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#77

Post by stinkytaco »

howcan wrote: post #75
stinkytaco wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe he was trying to make the two morally equivalent, just to say that there is a similar legal principle in question. I think his point is that the same legal principle applies. TPB is clearly "in-league" with copyright violators. I will not weigh in on whether this is right or not, but it's obvious from their past behaviors (blog posts, etc.). They are guilty of "conspiracy to commit copyright violation…

My comment is not to do with TPB. My comment has to do with mixing legal principles (or more specifcally, areas of law) that are very different and do not mix well. I disagree that "the same legal principle" applies, but then I'm not sure we have the same principles in mind. It sounds like you are thinking about the concept of conspiracy in general, or contributory infringement. But that's not what I was referring to…

I agree with you, that is why I put "consipiracy to commit copyright infringment" in quotation marks. That's not a thing and I don't really have an opinion on whether it should be a thing.

I read you statement as you thinking he was making a moral equivlancy (conspiracy to commit murder was the same as aiding copyright infringement). My point was that he's not making a moral equivlancy, he's just pointing out that to say TBP is not culpable because they don't host the files on their servers is missing the point, at least missing the point as lawmakers might see it.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#78

Post by CamperBob2 »

stinkytaco wrote: post #72
CamperBob2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

>By itself, speeding is a victimless crime: if you hit something or someone with your car, you were doing something wrong besides just speeding. This is so untrue I don't even know where to begin. The number of accidents that could be prevented if people would just slow down is amazing. Icy, rainy, foggy... going too fast is by far the most common cause of accidents. http://ec.europa.eu/transport/wcm/road_safety/erso…

Icy, rainy, foggy... going too fast is by far the most common cause of accidents.

Your mistake is in confusing "going too fast for conditions" with "going too fast for a sign at the side of the road." The relevant laws are more complex than your beliefs. Failure to maintain appropriate speed for conditions does indeed get people killed, but it has nothing to do with "speeding."

Under the wrong conditions, even driving 10 MPH below the speed limit can be suicidally reckless. Under the right conditions, driving at twice the speed limit confers negligible incremental risk.

I said this in another reply and I will say it again, speed limits are designed by engineers, not by "untrained, politically-appointed bureaucrats"

You can say it as much as you want, but this not being Harry Potter Land, it won't make it true. Speed limits are typically set by engineers by taking the 85th percentile speed into consideration, but it's trivial to find countless examples where local and state politics have dictated lower limits for the sake of revenue-raising, misguided ideas of what makes for safe driving conditions, or both.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#79

Post by CamperBob2 »

regularfry wrote: post #74
CamperBob2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

> if you hit something or someone with your car, you were doing something wrong besides just speeding. Only if you assume the driver has perfect knowledge of the nearby pedestrians, the road surface, what other road users are going to do before they do it, arbitrarily fast reaction speeds and flawless judgement. Oh, and brand new brakes. Shit happens. Speeding makes it much worse when it does.

Shit happens. Speeding makes it much worse when it does.

Statistics repeatedly fail to bear out your assertion. Promised increases in death rates that accompany increased highway speed limits essentially never materialize.

Modeling drivers as ideal gas particles whose collision rate is proportional to speed is simply wrong.

Re: The Pirate Bay - 9 years and still bloody runnin

#80

Post by CamperBob2 »

icebraining wrote: post #76
CamperBob2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, posting an Ayn Rand quote on the Internet is a good way to start a flame war. But there's one quote in particular that few intelligent people will disagree with, and that even fewer will be able to dispute. “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be…

Governments have many powers besides cracking down on criminals, that speed limits are designed to make criminals is a baseless claim, and bureaucrats in Washington, DC don't decide them - federal speed limits were repealed in 1995. In particular, the speed limit on West Texas are set by the Texas Department of Transportation.

In particular, the speed limit on West Texas are set by the Texas Department of Transportation.

Not when I was driving there, it wasn't. (This is called "showing my age," for the benefit of those who haven't had the opportunity to catch themselves doing that yet.)

Governments have many powers besides cracking down on criminals

What are some examples, apart from foreign policy where the basis of power is ultimately military?

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