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Linux phones are more important now than ever

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Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#91

Post by dugite-code »

charcircuit wrote: post #4

>Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement. AOSP is open and is a much better starting place than anything else.

Arguably the OS is the least important aspect.

The greatest issues facing mobile computing are:

1. The lack of any open firmware

2. Locked bootloaders

3. Obnoxious security "features"

    a. Security attestation that is out of the owners control.

    b. One time burn out resistors when you do unlock a device.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#92

Post by defrost »

7e wrote: post #89

Where are the open source planes, trains, and automobiles? Medical equipment? Nuclear reactors? Open source cannot afford the quantity control/verification need for these domains. It’s the same for phones. At best you’re going to get an insecure mess.

https://makerplane.org/

(not a plane) https://www.youtube.com/@Ground-Effect/videos

Trains - not so hard, it's getting legit real track time that's the issue - and you can always 'cheat' with a Hi Rail Pickup Truck modification.

Automobiles - .. you are kidding, right? You've never built (or met a builder of) a road certified car, truck, or other vehicle?

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#94

Post by Telaneo »

IlikeKitties wrote: post #81

>Banking requiring an Android or iOS Device for 2fa >My local postal service requiring an Android or iOS Device to unlock those postal delivery boxes >My local public transport requiring a Android or iOS Wallet app for my ticket to be used >My Health Insurance Provider requiring an Android or iOS App to see my own insurance data This is my daily struggle. All of these companies refuse to engage with you on this topic…

I was hoping the US becoming more hostile towards Europe would wake them up and allow the relevant legislators to discover that the entire industry is at the behest of two American companies. The same goes for cloud services in Europe, just with different companies, and OSes for that matter.

Alas, this is a rather large set of elephants nobody in power cares to acknowledge.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#95

Post by cosmic_cheese »

Apologies if the idea is absurd, but wouldn't a Linux handheld without a cell modem be easier to build and distribute? Think something of an analogue to iPod Touches, which were iPhones sans the the phone part.

This would skip a lot of the regulatory red tape, bring down costs, and make the devices more accessible so they’re in more developers’ hands. They’d have to tether from your primary phone which isn’t ideal, but workable.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#96

Post by IlikeKitties »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #87
bakugo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux can emulate android. It can't emulate hardware attestation though, which most bank apps now require, so good luck with that.

You can do pass through attestation with access to kernelspace. There are a few things that don't pass (play protect/wildvine, but that's by design, not a limitation of linux)

And do you think that will matter in the near future? Because every app developer will just set their apps to use the highest attestation requirement by default and every normal android phone will pass that test. The few percent of people that use something else can just fuck off.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#97

Post by pavon »

Telaneo wrote: post #90
em-bee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so we fork and continue to work on lineageOS. why start from scratch? (i mean, it's nice to have alternatives, but there is no reason not to continue developing an android fork.

Working on LineageOS doesn't help you if you can't even install it. Fewer and fewer phones come with unlockable bootloaders these days. The grip is tightening.

Yes, but if you are building your own phone hardware to run Linux on it, there is a huge advantage in that Linux flavor being an AOSP fork, since it is already mature.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#98

Post by dmbche »

jeffparsons wrote: post #10
dmbche wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of a government app

In Australia: Centrelink, Service Victoria, Medicare, myID (formerly MyGovID), ATO (tax) — for a start. There's no great reason for these to be Android/Apple specific. I'm just offering examples as requested.

And much appreciated - was not aware of these (other than covid vaccine apps really not seen them so far). Have a good day

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#99

Post by IlikeKitties »

Telaneo wrote: post #94
IlikeKitties wrote: post #81

>Banking requiring an Android or iOS Device for 2fa >My local postal service requiring an Android or iOS Device to unlock those postal delivery boxes >My local public transport requiring a Android or iOS Wallet app for my ticket to be used >My Health Insurance Provider requiring an Android or iOS App to see my own insurance data This is my daily struggle. All of these companies refuse to engage with you on this topic…

I was hoping the US becoming more hostile towards Europe would wake them up and allow the relevant legislators to discover that the entire industry is at the behest of two American companies. The same goes for cloud services in Europe, just with different companies, and OSes for that matter. Alas, this is a rather large set of elephants nobody in power cares to acknowledge.

>It works on my phone, whats your problem?

t. Every politician ever.

This won't be solved until politicians and the unthinking masses feel the pain of this stupidity directly. And Google and Apple will make sure that they calibrate the pain for the average Person just high enough that they will accept it.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#100

Post by salawat »

Telaneo wrote: post #80
neilv wrote: post #75

(Warning: Am only a software/product engineer, playing dilettante here, not an actual marketing/business expert.) Awhile back, I was thinking that one pragmatic way to get this viable Linux smartphone moving might be for hobbyists to focus on getting one easily available, affordable device working fully with pure Debian or PostmarketOS (no closed drivers or other modules, and preferably no blobs) and with Purism's Ph…

> to focus on getting one easily available, affordable device working fully with pure Debian or PostmarketOS (no closed drivers or other modules, and preferably no blobs) and with Purism's Phosh. I'm not sure how viable this is. Linux phones already opt for hardware that's as open as possible, i.e. they use parts with the most open documentation and drives, but the trade-off to that is that those parts are functional…

Why is the baseband closed? That is the question we need to have answered.
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