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Linux phones are more important now than ever

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Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#81
>Banking requiring an Android or iOS Device for 2fa

>My local postal service requiring an Android or iOS Device to unlock those postal delivery boxes

>My local public transport requiring a Android or iOS Wallet app for my ticket to be used

>My Health Insurance Provider requiring an Android or iOS App to see my own insurance data

This is my daily struggle. All of these companies refuse to engage with you on this topic, you get a canned response from support that's it. How do we even win this fight? As far as I can tell we've already lost.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#82

Only issue is it’s so hard to use a Linux phone as a daily driver. I have a librem 5, but I admit it’s just too raw of an experience for me to use as a daily driver.

I had a Neo Freerunner.

It was a terrible experience. I bought it with the impression that it had calls, texts etc working fine, and they were looking for developers to come along and add apps, games, whatever to round out the experience.

I couldn't have been more wrong. They had about four different distros. There was the 'old' one, the 'new' one which was already scheduled for deprecation because of the new-new one in the pipeline and there was also a debian distro. Each one used an entirely different UI framework (gtk/efl/qt), and the developers seemed focused on these endless interface rewrites when the unit couldn't reliably receive a call or a text under any of them.

After that I had a Nokia N900, which was a great experience. They'd nailed down the basics perfectly (as you'd expect from a much larger company) and the unit was a capable smartphone with linux under the hood and easily accessible. It's just a shame the app ecosystem never took off, and nokia flushed itself down the toilet shortly thereafter. I guess Sailfish is the successor in this space, though I liked that Maemo was debian-ish rather than rpm-ish :)

I guess what I'm saying is that a linux phone doesn't have to be raw, but for god's sake make it able to take calls and send a few messages...

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#83
post #74
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is ready, what is not ready is the ecosystem.

SailfishOS is quite polished, and there's an Android emulation API. Lots of common applications, including many banking ones, run without a problem. It's a chicken-egg issue. The last 10% of polish won't be done till a critical mass of users adopt the platform, and vice versa.

>SailfishOS is quite polished, and there's an Android emulation API. Lots of common applications, including many banking ones, run without a problem.

Remote Attestation and the Play Integrity API will soon make that stop.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#84
post #5

Linux phones are useless for common people until they can run government and bank apps.

I've heard this argument before and yet I've never understood it. What government apps do people run? Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone? Is this some payments model that's just not common in my country where we still use physical credit cards for everything?

> What government apps do people run?

Public transport ticket app, government ID app, drivers licence app.

I do believe all of these specific examples run fine on rooted Android without too much hassle (unsure about the second one), so they should be emulatable or whatever on a Linux phone, but that assumes that experience holds up decently well, which I would be surprised if it did for apps like this.

> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone?

Because the app is a whole lot better than the web interfaces my previous banks had. Plus the added convenience. I'd prefer that the web interface was just as good as the app, but I'd still use the app even if that existed, just due to the convenience.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#85

My Android phone prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to. My Android phone prevents me from recording phone calls at the request of my carrier, even though it's totally legal for me to do so in my jurisdiction. I'm not loving where this is all going.

FWIW the default phone app on GrapheneOS supports recording phone calls.

Did a nation state ask GrapheneOS to add that feature?

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#86
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this argument before and yet I've never understood it. What government apps do people run? Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone? Is this some payments model that's just not common in my country where we still use physical credit cards for everything?

People in non-US countries apparently have a litany of government and banking apps which are mandatory at all times.

They're rarely completely mandatory (Grandma still needs to be able to access her bank too), but the alternative is usually a whole lot more inconvenient (sometimes for bad reasons, sometimes just because that's how life is).

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#87
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux can emulate android. Most banks have websites, and the only real blocker for banking apps I've seen is the photo verification due to hardware issues connecting to the emulated android system.

> Linux can emulate android. It can't emulate hardware attestation though, which most bank apps now require, so good luck with that.

You can do pass through attestation with access to kernelspace. There are a few things that don't pass (play protect/wildvine, but that's by design, not a limitation of linux)

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#88
Total agreement with the article's conclusions. I'm an Android developer who once had about six apps listed in the Play Store. But as time passed, maintenance became more and more baroque, and a simple Android version change required me to rewrite all my apps or lose my listings. Like many developers, I gave up.

Then Google announced a decision to disallow sideloading (not clear when this will take effect) and many tablet/cellphone manufacturers intend to disallow bootloader unlocking. If all this happens, it basically closes the Android platform to anything but "official" software releases.

Consider this from my perspective. My first computer was an Apple II in the late 1970s. I could do anything I wanted with it, and I did. But over the decades I've watched the world of software development -- with the exception of personally owned Linux machines -- gradually turn into a walled garden.

What can I say -- it sucks the joy out of programming.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#89
Where are the open source planes, trains, and automobiles? Medical equipment? Nuclear reactors? Open source cannot afford the quantity control/verification need for these domains. It’s the same for phones. At best you’re going to get an insecure mess.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#90
post #27
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things keep going in the direction they are, there might not be a LineageOS at some point, and developing a useful alternative before that (Linux based) would be great.

so we fork and continue to work on lineageOS. why start from scratch? (i mean, it's nice to have alternatives, but there is no reason not to continue developing an android fork.

Working on LineageOS doesn't help you if you can't even install it. Fewer and fewer phones come with unlockable bootloaders these days. The grip is tightening.
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