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Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com

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Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#221

Post by ninetyninenine »

jncfhnb wrote: post #212
ninetyninenine wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If we see huge variation in intelligence scores intra group, that strongly suggests that there are social/cultural/environmental factors in play driving a large part of this. Correlation does not equal causation. Variation in genetics in a group can realistically be a factor as well. Three probable possibilities here: Only environment, Only genetics, both genetics and environment. Common sense says it's both genetic…

> Correlation does not equal causation. Variation in genetics in a group can realistically be a factor as well. Three probable possibilities here: Only environment, Only genetics, both genetics and environment. Common sense says it's both genetics and environment. Common sense says nothing about the weight of these factors nor does it say anything about “genetics” being archetypally delineated by race. Genetics for s…

Don’t call me dumb just because I disagree with your point. Keep the conversation civil and stop acting like an immature child or find another place to voice your opinion without insulting other people.

Common sense says many things about genetics. In fact it’s the basis behind my entire premise which you didn’t even address. Genetics plays a role in the physicality and even temperament of a race (testosterone is measurably different across races). What black magic makes intelligence the only factor that is independent of race? Common sense says it’s a factor.

Common sense also says environment is the greater factor. If a person lacks practice or education vs. a person who practices math puzzles everyday. Obviously that is the bigger causal factor by common sense.

Both are factors by common sense. Environment is the bigger factor also by common sense but by that same reasoning genetics is not insignificant. The best way to put it is that environment influences IQ but genetics influences potential.

Why appeal to common sense? Because there’s lack of solid causal evidence. Evidence exists, but the replication crisis and the lack of causal experimentation makes all the tests not as solid as the correlative tests.

The stupidest thing here is that we are not in disagreement on what the evidence points too. It’s just I’m able to rely on induction and logic to predict conclusions where scientific evidence is lacking while you’re entire model of the world is essentially “if the science doesn’t exist then it must not be true“

If the science doesn’t exist, it means it’s unknown. I hope this was educational for you.

I’ll point to some resources when I have time. Im currently not able to cite them atm.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#222

Post by ninetyninenine »

tptacek wrote: post #206
ninetyninenine wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If we see huge variation in intelligence scores intra group, that strongly suggests that there are social/cultural/environmental factors in play driving a large part of this. Correlation does not equal causation. Variation in genetics in a group can realistically be a factor as well. Three probable possibilities here: Only environment, Only genetics, both genetics and environment. Common sense says it's both genetic…

Cite them. Let's see which ones you're talking about. We know there are studies that say what you say! But it's hard to engage when the studies themselves are abstractions.

I will. On a train rn. I can cite them tonight. Hopefully you’ll respond.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#223

Post by ninetyninenine »

jncfhnb wrote: post #207
ninetyninenine wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right and again, when you maximize environmental factors there ARE STILL differences in intelligence. While Environment plays a massive role, genetics does as well. It's not as if environment is a smoking gun that makes the other factor disappear even when environment accounts for a much greater rise. Obviously a starving, stressed out person is going to have a much lower IQ score then someone who is happy and well f…

> You think because that obvious fact is true it completely eliminates genetics? No. The claim is not that genetics has nothing to do with intelligence. The claim is that race is a material, important driver of intelligence. There is no rigorous evidence of this.

The phrase you are responding to is 100 percent saying environmental factors does not eliminate genetic factors as a driver of intelligence. The English in context does not imply anything else.

Please read what I wrote and respond to what I wrote and don’t make random assumptions.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#224

Post by rerdavies »

perlgeek wrote: post #198
raxxorraxor wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can surely be corrected with the happiness laser. Jokes aside, it should be noted that CBT might confuse cause and effect and the goal is to mold the behavior of people into something socially wanted or expected or just learn to live with something that cannot reasonably be changed.

> it should be noted that CBT might confuse cause and effect https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-good/202503/... explicitly discusses the arrow of causality here > and the goal is to mold the behavior of people into something socially wanted or expected or just learn to live with something that cannot reasonably be changed. There are lots of crackpot approaches to psychotherapy, but I do believe that most…

Less clear whether that's true of researchers.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#225

Post by qazxcvbnmlp »

Nevermark wrote: post #142

I already knew my best friend from childhood was a terminal cynical bastard. But now this! He has less time than I thought. I will have to forward it to him, and cross my fingers that he doesn't spiral. Thoughts and prayers, man. Before you suggest it, I can't tell him to just "think positive". He would physically explode. Implode? Something. Matter, antimatter.

usually cynicism is a coping mechanism for underlying/subconscious pain... If you resolve that, then there is room for happier/positive thoughts to emerge. However, it's just like any other addiction (alcohol), it's not resolved in a day and takes hard work.

Much more comfortable to think; (everything sucks, those in power are out to get me) than (wow I really had a high hope for what my life would be, and this sure isn't it).

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#227

Post by munksbeer »

somenameforme wrote: post #216
munksbeer wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first study makes no conclusion that parenthood is the causative effect. It actually speculates if this is because people with higher rates of psychological distress are less likely to become parents. I couldn't read the full text of the second, but likewise the conclusion does not imply causation. I'm a parent, and have experienced significant 'psychological distress' as a result of having children. Every time I…

You're right. Not only did the first paper not imply causation, they literally did not even consider it. They didn't consider that fulfilling our most critical and primal instinct, in an activity that [generally] creates psycho-emotional bonds like no other, might have positive psychological benefits. Does not not strike you as odd? There's a practical issue with social science. Very near to 100% of researchers (from…

> Does not not strike you as odd?

Not really. What struck me as odd was someone citing papers as evidence for their opinion that having children increases your happiness, when the papers drew no such conclusion.

It's great that it has worked out that way for you. Sadly, I have a different experience, but life happens. If this makes any difference to you, I don't know, but let's move on.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#228

Post by nomorewords »

Sammi wrote: post #199
Jakap wrote: post #81

What about just talking gibberish in your mind? https://studyfinds.org/buddhist-meditation-christian-tongues...

Anecdotally: Happy people seem to like to talk about anything and everything. Unhappy people don't like to talk or only talk about one thing. I just got inspired on an llm prompt, and got these three koans, that to me are the most amazing things I've been able to get out of llms so far: https://pastebin.com/tc9uMWuw Thank you for the set up.

I wonder if this is how daydreaming helps, especially as a kid. I think that being taught not to dream as much as an adult and being in the moment kind of removes this random focus in our brains

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#229

Post by jncfhnb »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #221
jncfhnb wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Correlation does not equal causation. Variation in genetics in a group can realistically be a factor as well. Three probable possibilities here: Only environment, Only genetics, both genetics and environment. Common sense says it's both genetics and environment. Common sense says nothing about the weight of these factors nor does it say anything about “genetics” being archetypally delineated by race. Genetics for s…

Don’t call me dumb just because I disagree with your point. Keep the conversation civil and stop acting like an immature child or find another place to voice your opinion without insulting other people. Common sense says many things about genetics. In fact it’s the basis behind my entire premise which you didn’t even address. Genetics plays a role in the physicality and even temperament of a race (testosterone is mea…

No, that’s entirely incorrect reasoning.

Does genetics influence intelligence? Yes. Does genetics influence race? Yes.

Does that mean that race is a _material_ driver of differences in intelligence? No. That just doesn’t follow at all. Every difference between groups is statistically significant at some obscene sample size but the claim in question here is about whether it is _material_ and important. That is not at all clear. Nor is intelligence the only thing that this applies to. There’s a basically infinite list of human traits, competencies, and capabilities for which race-affiliated genetic advantages alone is pointlessly small in terms of effect.

Re: Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

#230

Post by pixl97 »

jongjong wrote: post #100
sindriava wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is likely a byproduct of us being too comfortable now. Not in the "you've got nothing real to worry about!" boomer rethoric kind of way, but in the sense that our baseline for reward has shifted a bit higher. So trauma can still present a very strong negative RL signal, while positive RL signals of similar magnitude become rarer.

What? We're more comfortable? What planet do you people live on? People have never been more stressed and uncomfortable. People are literally fighting psychological warfare and vanishing opportunities. Psychologically, we have never been so uncomfortable.

Just no. There is a particular problem of 'reporting' vs 'reality'.

Less fighting, more opportunity, more food, more clean water, less disease than ever.

What we do have now is 24 hour news and social media screaming how bad it is so we watch ads.

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