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Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

reuters.com

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Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#111

Post by rayiner »

protomyth wrote: post #43
rayiner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appeasement is the policy we've adopted towards trying to keep Israel and the Islamic countries from fighting. Do you remember the shitstorm at the DNC when they forgot to put "and Jeruselem shall be the capital of Israel" on the platform? What is that if not appeasement?

I think that is a perfect example of what jat850 is saying. It was pandering not appeasement, which backfired quite a lot with the booing.

Pandering is the usual "Israel is one of our greatest allies" lip service. Changing the DNC platform is something, impliedly promising to use the power of the US to protect Israel's interests goes beyond that.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#112

Post by comex »

tokenadult wrote: post #100

As I commented on this issue earlier, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4511247 "As we read news reports about violent responses to the video, from people who seem to be quite confused about who produced the video, it's important for all of us to remember the basic issue here. The basic issue is whether people in free countries, like most readers of Hacker News, are going to be able to enjoy the right of free speec…

> just because someone in a free country laughs or scorns at their delusions.

Give me a break - by all indications, the author of the video made it for his own religious reasons, because of his own delusions, rather than as some kind of enlightened critique, which explains why it's, y'know, so extremely crude. He made his video specifically to cause maximum insult to a culture: that doesn't put him anywhere near the lunatics who would kill diplomats over an insult, but he too is a lunatic. I'll defend to the death his right to say it, but it's hard to support it in any way.

Also, I don't know what you meant by it, and I apologize for being presumptuous, but your "people in backward, poorly governed countries that could never have invented the Internet" suggests an image of cultural superiority, which is an awful thing to create in response to the actions of a violent few.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#113

Post by pyoung »

protomyth wrote: post #92
Steko wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The oath is to protect the Constitution." Are you insinuating they've violated the Constitution somehow?

I am saying that the White House tried to interfere with someone's 1st Amendment rights which is not in keeping with the oath to the defend the US Constitution.

They asked Google to check if the video violated YT's terms of service. That is much different than what you are insinuating.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#114

Post by Karunamon »

smsm42 wrote: post #94
nostromo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was just a request. A request they are free to make and Google is free to decline. One (edit: four) of Obama's civilian employees was killed by an angry mob, ostensibly because of this video, so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask. I'm also glad Google declined.

He wasn't killed because of the video. He was killed because he was representing the US, aka Big Satan. It amazes me how anybody watching the news for last 20 or so years can still talk about it being about specific video or cartoon or poem or whatever and if only it wasn't there everything would be peachy. It wouldn't. And it wasn't "just a request". It was a request from US government - the body created to represen…

>And it wasn't "just a request". It was a request from US government

Which, unless there's some force of law or promise of reprisal behind it, is still "just a request".

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#115

Post by jlgreco »

Steko wrote: post #106
tokenadult wrote: post #100

As I commented on this issue earlier, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4511247 "As we read news reports about violent responses to the video, from people who seem to be quite confused about who produced the video, it's important for all of us to remember the basic issue here. The basic issue is whether people in free countries, like most readers of Hacker News, are going to be able to enjoy the right of free speec…

Freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequences. You can go all Fred Phelps and tell some marine's family he's in hell now at his funeral and that they are inbred hillbillies that could never have invented the internet but don't expect shock on my part if his dad and brothers decide that would be a good time to beat the shit out of you.

I would expect shock on your part if somebody in another hemisphere attacked and killed a third party because of something that you said. I know I would find that shocking, to put it lightly.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#116

Post by Karunamon »

cheald wrote: post #24
tomstokes wrote: post #7

From what I can gather, the White House didn't explicitly ask for the clip to be removed. Rather, they suggested the clip might violate YouTube's own terms of service. From the article: > White House officials had asked Google earlier on Friday to reconsider whether the video had violated YouTube's terms of service Still, the net effect is the same. The gesture was made with the goal of having the video removed from…

We have to ask why on earth the White House should even care if the video violates Google's TOS. This was as close as they could get to a takedown request without violating the Constitution. Really disgraceful, IMO.

Tapping someone on the shoulder and saying "Hey, could you take that down" is disgraceful? This was handled completely honorably and amicably as I can see. WH made a request, Google declined.

Save the outrage for things that need it, IMHO.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#117

Post by jrockway »

smsm42 wrote: post #90

What I would like to know here is: 1. How frequently US administration asks Google and other content companies to pull content for political reasons? 2. Has Google ever complied with these requests? 3. How much of this content was pulled because of blasphemy reasons? 4. Is it the official policy of US government to try to censure any speech which can cause negative reaction from violent extremists abroad, or there so…

This doesn't completely answer your questions, but take a look at the Google Transparency Report: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#118

Post by jlgreco »

comex wrote: post #112
tokenadult wrote: post #100

As I commented on this issue earlier, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4511247 "As we read news reports about violent responses to the video, from people who seem to be quite confused about who produced the video, it's important for all of us to remember the basic issue here. The basic issue is whether people in free countries, like most readers of Hacker News, are going to be able to enjoy the right of free speec…

> just because someone in a free country laughs or scorns at their delusions. Give me a break - by all indications, the author of the video made it for his own religious reasons, because of his own delusions, rather than as some kind of enlightened critique, which explains why it's, y'know, so extremely crude. He made his video specifically to cause maximum insult to a culture: that doesn't put him anywhere near the…

"suggests an image of cultural superiority"

I think it is safe to say that something is wrong, I don't accept that it is statistically insignificant noise of crazy and misogyny. I am not sure exactly what is wrong though.

It clearly is not race, and I don't think anybody on this website would think it was. Similarly, I don't think it is religion; their religion and science/progress historically have not been mutually exclusive. The history of Islam and science is arguably more positive than that of the other Abrahamic religions.

So what is it?

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#119

Post by bbrian »

Steko wrote: post #102
gfodor wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said they weren't "free" to do it. The point is that the message it sends is that they are anxious about the availability of the video, and the implication is that they would prefer that it be removed.

"Nobody said they weren't "free" to do it." You and a host of other people have brought up the Constitution as if it had any relevance here. "The point is that the message it sends is that they are anxious about the availability of the video" We can argue messages all day. One message it might send is a signal to muslim audiences of disapproval for the video. If that makes local governments do more to contain potenti…

People don't like that the organisation purporting to represent them, based on a document that exalts free speech, is inhibiting it in any way.

"We can argue messages all day" is a lame point.

Re: Google rejects White House request to pull Mohammad film clip

#120

Post by jlgreco »

nostromo wrote: post #19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect hasn't been translated into Arabic yet.

@seanmcdirmid Your comment is dead so I cannot respond to it directly.

"Arabs protesting the video didn't make the video more visible in the western world (the video is trash anyways)."

I would have never heard of this video were it not for the protests.

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