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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

41–50 of 351 posts

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#41
post #2

This is why I'm constantly asking: why aren't we planting vineyards in the Wasatch Front? Silicon Slopes didn't work out but can we at least farm some effing grapes?

Here in Oregon, vineyards and especially hop yards are being taken out, demand for alcohol overall is down, and same goes for the related tourism.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#42
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... what's the reason? :)

We don't have a good mechanism for waterproofing cellulose without various complicated industrial processes. Finding a way to do that would be interesting research. But anything involving grapeviles is just ecomasturbation. Actually, no, it's worse, because it robs attention and funding from real problems. Plastic pollution isn't predominately plastic bags or (plastic straws for that matter) that seem important becau…

In fairness, those industrial waste streams are mostly produced by “recycling” facilities for consumer waste.

The whole plastic straw thing is nuts. The old waxed paper straws were fine. The new “paper” straws are coated in PFAS and way worse for your health and the environment than most alternatives.

This article reminds me of that. Cellulose isn’t a new technology, but, like wax paper straws, it’s apparently forgotten arcane knowledge.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#43
post #29

Yeah that’s the problem. Plastic solves a logistics problem, not a structural problem. Are your Twinkies stuck in a hot truck in Texas for a week? No problem!

I don't know much about this area at all, but it seems like it would be neat to have a plastic that stood up well to heat and moisture, but you could leave it soaking in some petrol/diesel/oil liquid, and it would melt into that and leave you with something still useable. As I write this, it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature. Perhaps there's something a little l…

> it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature

That's what plastic IS. That's why it sounds like it, because plastic is in fact solid hydrocarbon.

So not only is it not farfetched, it exists today, which is also why incinerating plastic for energy is the best possible way to dispose it. You remove the plastic from the world, you reduce the amount of oil pumped for fuel, and you get to use the oil you do pump, twice! Once for plastic, and again for fuel.

It's one of those environmental slam dunks with zero downsides. (Before you ask: Modern incinerators do not release any toxins from burning plastic, none.)

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#44

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

I just threw one of those into my compost pile last month and it’s still there. No clue how long it’s supposed to take.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

I just threw one of those into my compost pile last month and it’s still there. No clue how long it’s supposed to take.

Compostable plastics don't compost if you just throw them in a compost heap, you need to compost them in high-temperature conditions.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#46

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

Most of these at least in my region are made from cornstarch. They decompose well/without "microplastics" but only under correct conditions.

Home composts aren't usually meeting these, their temperature isn't going high enough for full decomposition and you can have traces of polymers left behind. I throw them in the trash for compostable waste because thankfully my collectivity collects these to generate biogas and my guess is they do end up in much larger/managed composts where they can fully decompose.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#47
post #43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about this area at all, but it seems like it would be neat to have a plastic that stood up well to heat and moisture, but you could leave it soaking in some petrol/diesel/oil liquid, and it would melt into that and leave you with something still useable. As I write this, it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature. Perhaps there's something a little l…

> it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature That's what plastic IS. That's why it sounds like it, because plastic is in fact solid hydrocarbon. So not only is it not farfetched, it exists today, which is also why incinerating plastic for energy is the best possible way to dispose it. You remove the plastic from the world, you reduce the amount of oil pumped for fuel,…

So do we already do this? And if not, why not?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#48

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

I quit using bags for produce--I just put the produce in my basket or cart and then straight into the checkout bag on my way out of the store.

The exception is small loose produce like snap peas.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

Most of these at least in my region are made from cornstarch. They decompose well/without "microplastics" but only under correct conditions. Home composts aren't usually meeting these, their temperature isn't going high enough for full decomposition and you can have traces of polymers left behind. I throw them in the trash for compostable waste because thankfully my collectivity collects these to generate biogas and…

I thought it was all PLA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingeo

I think there's also "biodegradable" plastic which has cornstarch in it which allows bacteria to degrade it, but that's not the same thing?

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