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GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#141

Post by SapporoChris »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #118
dsign wrote: post #57

This kinds of make me want to get a pixel and install GrafeneOS there. I'll admit that big companies may have some incentive to protect their users' privacy; but they are an easy legal target. If tomorrow the US or EU pass legislation that mandates a backdoor in all mobile devices, the entire world is screwed.

I want to get a Pixel just for GrapheneOS as well but Google is incapable of selling those things worldwide despite being a trillion dollar corporation.

I had issues buying my Pixel from Google. My memory is fuzzy, but I think after I activated my account they said great, We'll let you purchase in a month... A really cautious security model I suppose. I gave up and bought it on Amazon.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#142

Post by jajuuka »

bornfreddy wrote: post #135
into_ruin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the UK recently cited the Investigatory Powers Act of 2016 in an attempt to force Apple to create a backdoor, but Apple refused

> ...but as far as we know Apple refused. Fixed that for you.

To be fair after that came out they disabled ADP for the whole country. If they were willing to go along with it then that would not be the course they would take.

Not to mention it's a colossally dumb move to create a back door into your system that anyone can access and can break things like government contracts. Apple is greedy but they aren't suicidal.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#143

Post by groggler »

jbstack wrote: post #58
rangerelf wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being willfully dense, I do not believe it's up for debate. Governments that public force to kidnap, torture, murder, "disappear" their own citizens, are bad. Plenty of examples to go around, both historically and currently: China, Russia, México, North Korea, Belarus, the balcans, plenty of African governments, etc. It shouldn't matter that "34% of my neighbors" want me sent to a concentration camp, personall…

Ok, so how do you categorise a country like Norway (typically viewed as a "good" country by most people) which knowingly invests money from its sovereign fund into companies which are linked to the Israeli military which (in many people's view) is currently causing genocide and widespread starvation? At what point does the "good" cross over into the "bad"? Is it ok that having a highly regarded government comes at th…

No.. If one follows that absolutism then people deserve nothing better than the worst government anyway because of social slippery slopes like the popular worship of Charles Manson.

There are obviously a lot of dimensions and clusters within those dimensions and we can't always say exactly which nationalist fascists to beat to death with hammers for the global good, but we can say Norway is a bit removed from them.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#144

Post by 3abiton »

imiric wrote: post #75
rjdj377dhabsn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just follow the official build instructions with a single change: when specifying the build target, change it from -user to -userdebug: https://grapheneos.org/build#setting-up-the-os-build-environ...

Hhmm that seems like a hassle, TBH. One of the things I like the most about GOS is the web installer, and how easy it is to use. If I need a custom build, to run my own server, and sacrifice performance for it, it doesn't seem worth it. It would also be good to know what a debug build entails, how exactly it is "less secure", and so on. Since this is unlikely to be documented by the GOS team, a 3rd party guide would…

> It would also be good to know what a debug build entails, how exactly it is "less secure".

Using software engineering terms, think of the official GOS as production release, and the debug version as test release. You deploy it by actiually building it, like building a linux kernel. This takes lots of reaources (RAM + storage). But also is quite flexible because you can compile and build it whenver there is a new update. And you can sign the build yourself. The reason why they say it's insecure is the same why your server sysadmin does not give you the root password. You can do some serious damage if you have no idea what you're doing. On Android, root allow you to peek on other processes and apps, so if you grant root to a malicious app, high risk of data leakage. That's it though. Been rooting and building roms since early android days, no issues for me as I tend to use open source tools most of the time.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#145

Post by fsflover »

octo888 wrote: post #110
fsflover wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, it's a dangerous and suspicious choice, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45100831

I'm suspicious of your comment. You got beef or had a run in with the people who run the project...?

I don't have and never had any connection to GrapheneOS developers, positive or negative, online or offline, nor am I working for any of their competitors. I only have the philosophical disagreement with their decisions explained in my link above.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#146

Post by fsflover »

subscribed wrote: post #122
fsflover wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, it's a dangerous and suspicious choice, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45100831

Okay, I'll bite - what phone GOS should run on? Remember the context is having a *secure* handset in hand.

The answer is in the above link.

> secure

Different threat models exist. For example: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

Also, what I predicted has just happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45208925

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#147

Post by buckle8017 »

subscribed wrote: post #126
colordrops wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the threat model when enabling root on a phone and why can't it be mitigated? Root is enabled on most servers and desktops and we are surviving fine.

This is why most desktops and servers are comparably much less secure. Check why Qubes OS was developed.

The user has real dom0 root on qubes.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#148

Post by nunobrito »

9029 wrote: post #114
nunobrito wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong: https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsq9lsf88umpdunkdzpdthyffys275z...

Where does it say the app comes with Graphene???

Those are semantics. When you put a knife next to a tomato in the kitchen table, it cannot be argued they are separated. Same thing for directly supporting and even recommending the Tor usage on the phone.

Let's please avoid semantic word games. Thank you.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#149

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

jeroenhd wrote: post #45
nixgeek wrote: post #36

This feels like countering insinuations on the Internet with insinuations on the Internet. Cellebrite doesn't publicly publish the latest support matrix so we have no real idea what progress if any they've made against recent iPhones and iOS versions, nor any real detail on how something like Lockdown Mode influences outcomes for their software. Nor does this show anything about Pixel 9 or Pixel 10 and the newest var…

Documents have been leaked at the beginning of this year: https://osservatorionessuno.org/blog/2025/03/a-deep-dive-int... which do include the Pixel 9. They show GrapheneOS being pretty secure in comparison to other vendors at the very least, with GrapheneOS being marked as unsupported if patched beyond 2022. They also show GrapheneOS beating the stock Google firmware. One reason GrapheneOS fights these threads is by…

Some devices are listed with both "BFU Yes" and "BF No" under the "... BFU" column (for example, the newer Pixel devices table). What do these mean in combination?

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#150

Post by pavon »

t1234s wrote: post #94

I currently use LineageOS on my pixel. Is it worth trying Graphine OS?

I love the sandboxed Play Services. It works better than microg, and is more secure/private than installing Play Services normally which are your two options on LineageOS.

The main downside for me was the limited phone choice. I really liked being able to use a smaller Sony phone with LineageOS, but now that those aren't really available in the US, I had to move to big phone anyway and Pixels aren't the worst option out there.

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