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GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#91

Post by breppp »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #4

There is no such thing like "bad government" and "good government". I mean - it really depends on people's views, therefore we must not blissfully put our data into govt hands because "they will protect us from terrorists and child rapists". What they will do, actually, is that for sure they will abuse innocent citizens at some point of time. They will. Even if they don't, they will. Or maybe they are doing it right…

Only someone who never lived under a bad government would claim all governments are equally bad.

Only someone who never has seen war would think they need no defense

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#92

Post by other8026 »

megaloblasto wrote: post #26

I've always found it strange that GrapheneOS only runs on Google hardware. Can anyone explain this choice?

Pixels are the only devices that are out right now that meet the project's requirements. The project is in talks with a major OEM to have some of their devices meet GrapheneOS's requirements and have official support for GrapheneOS. Assuming all continues to go well, the project has said they expect those devices to be out in 1-2 years.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#93

Post by foofoo12 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #74
foofoo12 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it really depends on people's views. No it does not. It depends on peoples morals.

> > it really depends on people's views. > No it does not. It depends on peoples morals. Morals are a kind of views.

It's the fundamental principles of right and wrong. Morals. It's not just views or kind of.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#95

Post by dragonwriter »

foofoo12 wrote: post #93
dragonwriter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > it really depends on people's views. > No it does not. It depends on peoples morals. Morals are a kind of views.

It's the fundamental principles of right and wrong. Morals. It's not just views or kind of.

Beliefs about what is fundamentally right and wrong are, in fact, views.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#96

Post by notorandit »

The only thing that comes to my mind is the so-called blobs, the closed source hardware drivers that are needed to make an Android phone work and that run at high privilege level.

If GrapheneOS is not tightly sandboxing them, then chances there are that a capable operator can use whatever backdoor each driver offers, mainly the wifi adapter, the baseband modem and the Bluetooth adapter.

No matter what GrapheneOS developers have done.

Imagine the wifi driver being able to spoof on pin entry procedure.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#98

Post by jbstack »

MrOwen wrote: post #82
jbstack wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since the 1980s, we have been consistently taxing less Who is "we"? We're talking about governments in general ("good" vs "bad" ones), and I have no idea what jurisdiction you are referring to. In any case, I didn't say the tap is dry. I said if you keep raising taxes it will eventually run dry. Or to put it another way, taxes are not an unlimited resource that you can keep increasing as much as you'd like. At some…

How are you coming to the conclusion that it will run dry? For example, in the US, arguably the most prosperous period here was in the first half of the 1900s. It is when Roosevelt's New Deal went into place and the US experienced extraordinary growth and prosperity. Do you know what also coincided with this? The marginal income tax rate. From wikipedia: > For tax years 1944 through 1951, the highest marginal tax rat…

Consider what would happen if the tax rate was 100% across all tax types, and you'll probably see then how there's an upper limit to how much tax revenue can be raised by a government. Would you get up and go to work if you got to keep 0% of your earnings? How about if you got to keep 1% of them? 2%?

Surely we can agree that there is a threshold, even if we don't agree where that threshold is. That's all there is to the point I'm trying to make: tax resources are limited and therefore all governments must ultimately allocate those limited resources and cannot simply spend unlimited amounts on any "good" projects that they'd like.

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#99

Post by themaninthedark »

chuckSu wrote: post #55
rangerelf wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being willfully dense, I do not believe it's up for debate. Governments that public force to kidnap, torture, murder, "disappear" their own citizens, are bad. Plenty of examples to go around, both historically and currently: China, Russia, México, North Korea, Belarus, the balcans, plenty of African governments, etc. It shouldn't matter that "34% of my neighbors" want me sent to a concentration camp, personall…

You’ve got quite a list of examples there. In 2025 that list of examples should include the US and Israel

Try earlier than that for the US:

>In 2015, the Guardian revealed Chicago Police had allegedly employed torture and days-long unlawful detention at the secretive “black site”-like Homan Square facility

And the federal government knew and participated.

>“When we’re doing joint operations with the federal government, it’s generally — it’s under the supervision of an Assistant U.S. Attorney and they’re merely using our facility because it’s more convenient."

https://thegrayzone.com/2025/03/15/feds-used-chicago-black-s...

Re: GrapheneOS and forensic extraction of data (2024)

#100

Post by jbstack »

npoc wrote: post #83
jbstack wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the fact that there's a subjective definition problem here (how do we decide what people "need"?), I think this an unrealistic view. By this definition, every government that has ever existed or ever will exist is a "bad" government because no government can ever tackle every single problem 100% of the time. Many problems are extremely difficult to solve (e.g. global warming), and others simply cannot be s…

There is no man-made global warming crisis. The earth is in fact one of the coldest periods in history. Thoroughly explained here: https://youtu.be/KDwCUAueLUU What the "man-made global warming crisis" is , is an example of how a corrupt/captured state will overreach and control the people for its own gain through manipulation. Many governments are captured by the now global financial system that has almost unlimited…

I disagree strongly with you on this, but nonetheless I think you've proven the point that the original comment was making i.e. that what constitutes a "good" or a "bad" government is subject to people's views.

In my view, a government that does nothing to tackle global warming is "bad". In your view, a government that spends resources on something you think is a fraud, is also "bad". We can't both be right.

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