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US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

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Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#841

Post by mattnewton »

rayiner wrote: post #772
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

[flagged]

The criticism is more that the money on football doesn’t show up in test scores, not that it harms test scores, and the believe that their tax dollars would be better spent on something that does contribute to test scores. (Reasonable people can disagree about that)

Texans scored highly on Texas state tests, but generally below the national average on national tests like the SAT https://legacyonlineschool.com/blog/texas-sat-score.html I don’t think Texas can be used to make the arguments either way here.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#842

Post by lelanthran »

lupusreal wrote: post #567
lelanthran wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the schools are able to kick out any underperforming students Being able to kick out disruptive students has a pretty big influence on the remaining students. How do you distinguish between underperforming-non-disruptive students and under-performing-disruptive students, especially as the almost all the disruptive students are going to be underperforming anyway.

You make it sound difficult. It's not. Schools are filled with security cameras. When a student attacks another, expell him. And none of that "the victim tried to defend himself so we have to expelled him too, we don't care who started it" horse shit. The schools have cameras, use them.

I agree with all of that.

What I was getting to WRT to the GP's post about how charter schools kick out under performing students in order to "prove" that the public school system is inferior.

I'm trying to determine how he distinguishes between kids that are kicked out to make the school look better and kids that are kicked out because they are disruptive.

I already know how to do that (cameras, etc), I'm just wondering why he doesn't consider that school that kicks kids out might be kicking out disruptive kids.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#843

Post by zamadatix »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #839
zamadatix wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they are unlikely to throw in the towel because someone runs a shame campaign against them for it. That doesn't make the school caving on the topic any more forgivable, but we can't trivialize how difficult small but dedicated groups in a local community can make things either. The community typically only shows up to worry a…

> Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they aren't looking for community support I'm not saying their feelings aren't sincerely held. My point is they need community support to ban books in a public school.

They just need the school board to cave to the constant annoyance. The community only shows up when the bad decision is imminent (or, often, has already passed) because they cannot treat this issue as their only #1 priority, as a small group can.

What the school board did here is sneak out of the battle, which would continue long after community says "no" once.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#844

Post by OhMeadhbh »

hollerith wrote: post #833
OhMeadhbh wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the white dude from Middletown with a law degree from Yale is personally familiar with systemic social depredation.

JD Vance famously grew up in poverty and chaos caused by his mother's chronic drug addiction and his father's having abandoned him when he was a toddler.

It's interesting to note that Vance's assertion he grew up in poverty has been challenged. My assertion was that his position as a white middle class kid from suburban Cincinnati taking golf lessons does not necessarily make him the best person to speak from first hand knowledge about the effects of poverty on educational attainment. I'm also fairly certain that Vance did not wander the streets of Middletown, feral and unparented. My understanding is that he was raised by his grand-parents, not that he lived with the chaos of his mother's situation.

Also... great deflecting.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#845

Post by tadzikpk »

etempleton wrote: post #654
tenarchits wrote: post #198

Most of the comments are focused on the supply of education. But I don't think the supply side is the problem, irrespective of teachers and high schools. There is more and cheaper education available than ever before. Nearly every highschooler has more access to learning that kings and emperors would have fought wars for less than 200 years ago. However,the United States, particularly in the last 50 years, seems to h…

In the US there are a few obvious things, but everyone acts as if we are powerless to solve them: 1. Cell phones in classrooms. I don’t know how or why they were ever allowed. They should have to be in a backpack or in a locker and off during class. 2. Not removing students with bad behavior from classrooms and schools. The current thinking on how to handle a student who is seriously misbehaving and potentially viole…

> 2. Not removing students with bad behavior from classrooms and schools

This is basically _the_ reason people send their kids to private schools

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#846

Post by JumpCrisscross »

zamadatix wrote: post #843
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they aren't looking for community support I'm not saying their feelings aren't sincerely held. My point is they need community support to ban books in a public school.

They just need the school board to cave to the constant annoyance. The community only shows up when the bad decision is imminent (or, often, has already passed) because they cannot treat this issue as their only #1 priority, as a small group can. What the school board did here is sneak out of the battle, which would continue long after community says "no" once.

> community only shows up when the bad decision is imminent

That's where naming and shaming comes in. In a small community, there is a long-term cost to trying to game inattention.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#847

Post by [deleted] »

graemep wrote: post #600
zdragnar wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skin color isn't it, actually. I knew (second hand) a teacher in a rural area of a low population state. All white kids, she'd have kindergartners cussing her out. Very little hope for any academic future for the other grades as things didn't get better with the older kids. I knew a white kid who lived in a trailer park whose mom was upset he was getting tutoring after school for his dyslexia because she told him he'…

> Skin color isn't it, actually. Is contradicted by this > My mixed race friend mentioned he was accused of "acting white" in school because he actually tried to get good grades. Unless you are taking skin colour very literally, which is obviously not it (someone's academic performance is not going to change if they get a heavy tan or use s kin whitening cream or take a drug that changes skin colour etc.). I interpre…

[deleted]

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#848

Post by tomrod »

themgt wrote: post #722
tomrod wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Were this an academic symposium I would agree. But this is the internet where folks who know how to establish causality and understand research methods and proper citing are uncommon. Fortunately, I do appreciate the author's thought and contribtions to observation data, and, tongue in cheek, as a utility monster my appreciation more than negates your lack of appreciation.

Were this an academic symposium on lung cancer I would agree. But this is the internet where folks who know how to establish causality and understand research methods and proper citing are uncommon. As a utility monster my appreciation reading about the author's grandma who lived 'til 90 smoking a pack a day more than negates your obsession with medical data. The irony of this being every discussion of education on H…

Must consume more utility, rawr.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#849

Post by tick_tock_tick »

const_cast wrote: post #759
rayiner wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that “culture” explanation is that white kids in America do fine in international educational comparisons. In the 2018 PISA assessment, 15 year old white american students were near the top in reading (behind only Singapore and some Chinese SEZs) and in the top echelon in science (comparable to Japan). Their weakest performance was math, where they’re around the middle, behind the top asian countries…

> Insofar as the US had a “culture averse to education,” surely that affects white americans as much as it affects anyone else. Its like you've never lived in America. Obviously white people are extremely privileged and also have a different culture. Keep in mind that schools in predominantly black areas are typically significantly less funded than those in white areas.

> Keep in mind that schools in predominantly black areas are typically significantly less funded than those in white areas.

Spending per student is not partially predictive of education outcomes in the USA.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#850

Post by breakyerself »

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #778
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

The ironic bit here is the local high school where I live in the Pacific North-West doesn't have a copy of Homo Ludens (either in print or as an e-book for lending) which is sort of the Sine Qua Non text on the philosophy of sport (which would explain why having a Football Team is important.)

I tend to think sports is good for kids. Not football though. My kids in high school marching band so I'm at the games. It's stupid how many kids get hurt on any given Saturday and some will go on to have CTE
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