US High school students' scores fall in reading and math • Hacker News Board

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#831

Post by raincole » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:24 PM UTC

Fraterkes wrote: post #766

raincole wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If parents could perfectly pass their culture down to their children, no religious country would ever turn secular. Gay marriage would never have been legalized. Black people would have no right to cast vote today. All these things are not true in the real world, so the conclusion is that a generation doesn't copy the previous generation's culture like a spit image.

I don’t think you need to be able to clone yourself to raise a child with broadly similar values to yourself. My point is that I don’t think you can simultaneously argue that the older generations were raised in a way that was succesful at making them responsible individuals (in ways kids these days aren’t) and that that same generation is systematically failing at passing on responsibility to their children. Which l…

I don’t think you need to be able to clone yourself to raise a child with broadly similar values to yourself. My point is that I don’t think you can simultaneously argue that the older generations were raised in a way that was succesful at making them religious individuals (in ways kids these days aren’t) and that that same generation is systematically failing at passing on religion to their children. Which leads me to believe these generational differences in religion don’t really exist

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#832

Post by everybodyknows » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:26 PM UTC

nancyminusone wrote: post #728

monkeyelite wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a high school with lots of kids that read and nobody ever checked out a book from the school library. Their interests were specialized and they got their books online or from larger collections not offered at a school. It’s fine - libraries aren’t sacred. If nobody uses them we don’t need them. The joke about football is often made but they pay for it, because people use it. > “Disassembling the library boo…

>This is not the subject of wood working Sure it is, it's free wood for the woodshop. Unless the library is very new, those are probably solid planks. No shop teacher is going to say no to free wood. The real mystery is how the woodshop survived longer than the library did. Usually woodshops are the first thing to go.

> Usually woodshops are the first thing to go.

Perhaps your experience is with states whose legislatures are dominated by trial lawyers, who can hope to retire on one really good, fat personal injury judgment?

Mine is, but I hope that's not the case everywhere.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#833

Post by hollerith » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:28 PM UTC

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #826

repeekad wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stereotyping white students as already fine and thus undeserving of any attention contributed this cultural mess in the first place, JD Vance wrote a book about white American struggles and now he’s VP. The school district might be primarily white, it’s more clearly likely poor and rural, and the electoral college values it more than dense educated rich cities.

I'm sure the white dude from Middletown with a law degree from Yale is personally familiar with systemic social depredation.

JD Vance famously grew up in poverty and chaos caused by his mother's chronic drug addiction and his father's having abandoned him when he was a toddler.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#834

Post by tristor » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:30 PM UTC

const_cast wrote: post #759

rayiner wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that “culture” explanation is that white kids in America do fine in international educational comparisons. In the 2018 PISA assessment, 15 year old white american students were near the top in reading (behind only Singapore and some Chinese SEZs) and in the top echelon in science (comparable to Japan). Their weakest performance was math, where they’re around the middle, behind the top asian countries…

> Insofar as the US had a “culture averse to education,” surely that affects white americans as much as it affects anyone else. Its like you've never lived in America. Obviously white people are extremely privileged and also have a different culture. Keep in mind that schools in predominantly black areas are typically significantly less funded than those in white areas.

> Obviously white people are extremely privileged and also have a different culture.

Why is this obviously? It's like /you've/ never lived in America, not outside of some coastal city. Go to anywhere in the Midwest or Southeast and tell me that white people are privileged in some unique way. It's a poverty problem and a problem of cultural priorities, not about race.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#835

Post by Permit » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:31 PM UTC

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #755

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

[flagged]

> [Edit: Hunh. Imagine that. I ask people to demonstrate their unwillingness to participate in meaningful dialog by down-voting this post and they do exactly that. Si Tacuisses, Philosophus Mansisses.]

I was considering commenting when I originally downvoted but thought it would detract from the core conversation.

But now that you’ve added this bit I’ll just say: a number of people (including myself) will auto-downvote any comment that complains about impending downvotes regardless of other content.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#836

Post by standeven » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:34 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

In my community, those parents occasionally get elected to the school board.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#837

Post by zamadatix » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they are unlikely to throw in the towel because someone runs a shame campaign against them for it.

That doesn't make the school caving on the topic any more forgivable, but we can't trivialize how difficult small but dedicated groups in a local community can make things either. The community typically only shows up to worry about it after a bad decision is imminent, the small group shows up 24/7/365 pushing the issue.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#838

Post by s5300 » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:35 PM UTC

mquander wrote: post #441

s5300 wrote: post #87

[flagged]

If kids could do math they would be able to divide the yearly American military aid to Israel ($18b last year) by the American population (340m), so they probably wouldn't conclude that fifty bucks per year per person was the main reason why their classmates are poor or their parents can't afford healthcare.

[dead]

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#839

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:36 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #837

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they are unlikely to throw in the towel because someone runs a shame campaign against them for it. That doesn't make the school caving on the topic any more forgivable, but we can't trivialize how difficult small but dedicated groups in a local community can make things either. The community typically only shows up to worry a…

> Those parents genuinely believe the presence of certain books in school is harming children, they aren't looking for community support

I'm not saying their feelings aren't sincerely held. My point is they need community support to ban books in a public school.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#840

Post by everybodyknows » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

OhMeadhbh wrote: post #823

rayiner wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Texas is in the lowest decile in terms of high school graduation rates and the lower half of post-secondary educational attainment. It is not a paragon of educational achievement. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/educational...

Graduation rates can be raised to nearly whatever ratio is politically desirable, simply by easing requirements.

https://www.ecs.org/50-state-comparison-high-school-graduati...