Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

kanadojo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 94 posts

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#51

Post by RayVR »

coldblues wrote: post #15

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

You’re just wrong. There are multiple pieces to learning languages. I had immense success with wanikani, improving my listening and reading.

Speaking can only be improved by speaking. No amount of language intake will improve output.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#52

Post by ccozan »

Great app - but as other said, this only works to reinforce what you learn.

My experience learning Japanese is a follows: - learn the sounds - no need to learn the writing ( yet )

- immerse in language and culture - just watch anime and movies as much as possible - I tell you what happens: at some points your brain makes click! and you start seeing the words and the sounds. Nice about the japanese is the very finite sounds they use.

- when I heard the japanese spoken, I started to visualize in my mind vision the romaji , like mental writing -> then I started to replace the romaji with hiragana and now slowly I replace with kanji ( as much as possible , still learning ) so in this way I bring the writing like a transcription service.

Till now speaking is still hard as I am yet to grasp full grammar in expressing complex ideas. Japanese has a beautiful information compression by linking parts of the sentence in ( for now ) complex chains that express ideas. I mean, yes, if I am stranded in Japan, I will survive, but I wont be able to go out with my friends and tell a story. That is still very far away. Maybe this needs reading books.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#53

Post by stevage »

coldblues wrote: post #15

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

>You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary,

That's what this tool helps you do.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#54

Post by jvuygbbkuurx »

RayVR wrote: post #51
coldblues wrote: post #15

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

You’re just wrong. There are multiple pieces to learning languages. I had immense success with wanikani, improving my listening and reading. Speaking can only be improved by speaking. No amount of language intake will improve output.

I think you are oversimplifying it. Thinking is output.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#55

Post by marsavar »

coldblues wrote: post #15

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

People are reacting quite strongly to this answer, but it is unfortunately correct. OP has essentially created an application for memorising vocabulary, which is... fine, and it's an achievement to be celebrated.

But no amount of flashcards will make you a competent language speaker. There is no substitute for immersion.

What made it really click for me for me was reading. Lots and lots of it. My suggestion is to start with short, easy stuff (stories for kids) and then move on to progressively harder material (short newspaper articles, essays).

I passed JLPT N1 back in 2013, and preparing for the test was just an exercise in memorising vocabulary and grammar patterns. What really made the language click for me was reading novels in Japanese. That alone helped me more than any amount of Anki-style JLPT prep material ever did.

Vocabulary is important, but it's much, much easier to absorb and retain if you learn it in context.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#56

Post by Karrot_Kream »

nodja wrote: post #29
linehedonist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe talk to people in Japanese? And do some writing? Not just passive consumption.

This is actually NOT recommended for a beginner. Writing and speaking are effective at establishing long term memories, it's why we do it for other things, but a language learning beginner has no idea if what they're writing makes sense or if there's any subtle mistakes in how they're pronouncing words or how they're putting them together, etc. Language learning experts don't recommend you start speaking/writing unle…

I'm sorry but this is one of the most incorrect things I have ever read. If I could downvote it twice I would.

It's true that Japanese tend to be more strict about accurate production of phonology than many other language speakers but speaking and writing are huge enablers of becoming better. It's really not that hard to unlearn bad pronunciation especially in an immersive context. Also most Japanese have a tendency to gently correct a speaker if you use the wrong phrase, particle, or construction.

Obviously if you've been self-learning your first few conversations with real people are going to be rough and so maybe avoid dense topics like Japanese attitudes on the JSDF. But if you end up in a light conversation circle where you talk about your favorite foods you'll be fine.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#59

Post by yorwba »

coldblues wrote: post #21
zaik wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anki definitely works for memorizing the hell out of vocabulary and I also don't regret completing WaniKani, although I would probably choose an Anki only approach if I had to start over. At some intermediate level I stopped looking at the mnemonics completely and just did as many reviews as possible until it stuck.

I agree with you, but Anki is a generalized flashcard SRS memorization tool, not specifically made for learning Japanese, so it's not within my area of critique; I'm thinking of apps similar to Duolingo. It works extremely well because it helps you memorize very efficiently. One of the few applications that will indeed boost your learning by a lot. Anything requiring manual input rather than a simple Again or Good bu…

I assume you're thinking about translation flashcards when you say that manual input should not be used, but I get a lot of value out of dictation flashcards in Anki: the front plays a recording of a sentence, I type in what I heard, and I mark myself correct if I wrote the right sentence and understood its meaning.

With translation, the problem is that there's often many correct answers, which makes it difficult to distinguish wrong answers from unexpected correct answers. But sentence dictation usually doesn't have this problem (barring puns with homophones.)

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#60

Post by gyomu »

refactor_master wrote: post #32
gyomu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “culture” around learning Japanese is so different from other languages. There’s a large amount of software engineers studying the language, so there’s tons of apps/websites that center around it (for better or worse). The communities are also… particular. People tend to espouse certain deep beliefs or attitudes that you just don’t see for other languages (and I don’t think complexity is the reason; you don’t see…

Funny thing is, these communities aren’t readily visible in real life. At the Japanese language school I attend people are mostly regular people with regular lives and regular limitations. Online, you’d believe that everybody did Wanikani on Adderall for several hours a day.

Oh yeah, my experience IRL in Japan is that 80% of Japanese learners are Chinese (and 15% are from other Asian countries, eg Thailand/Vietnam/Korea/India/Pakistan).
Post reply on HN