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Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

kanadojo.com

21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#21
post #19

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

Anki definitely works for memorizing the hell out of vocabulary and I also don't regret completing WaniKani, although I would probably choose an Anki only approach if I had to start over. At some intermediate level I stopped looking at the mnemonics completely and just did as many reviews as possible until it stuck.

I agree with you, but Anki is a generalized flashcard SRS memorization tool, not specifically made for learning Japanese, so it's not within my area of critique; I'm thinking of apps similar to Duolingo. It works extremely well because it helps you memorize very efficiently. One of the few applications that will indeed boost your learning by a lot. Anything requiring manual input rather than a simple Again or Good button choice tends to be worse. Any Anki deck requiring manual input as an answer should not be used.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#22

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

Ajatt is absolutely ridiculous and I never understood how it rose to prominence online.

His result to efforts ratio listed back in the days was terrible and reading through is blog - back when it was a blog - was impossible. Everything read like an informercial and never got to the point.

Last time I checked it was a book club. Didn’t bother to check this time.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#23
Great start! I like the aesthetic and focus on a single language. Most of all, making it open source and just getting it out there!

I'd love to collaborate, but I think we've got to look at overall concept first. There's a lot of information on the screen and it's not really clear how the learner journeys through. Greatly reducing the amount of info on the screen at once, focusing learner's attention on a single path would be helpful.

There's many theories of language acquisition, but I think Krashen is most on-point: we learn through comprehensible input. New vocabulary really needs to be encountered in context of meaningful sentences that are understandable to the learner. Further, when training, production with spaced repetition is really the most effective strategy.

I'd love to see there be a really great free learning tool that brings a pedagogically sound approach to Japanese learners!

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#24

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

My argument in support of the general immersion concept but against AJATT is that most people can't actually effectively use that method without hitting a wall. The amount differs for everyone but after some ratio (say around 50% of your waking hours) your brain will stop working as well and you need space to process what you learned. Finishing a long study session (say listening to a few YouTube videos then having a session on iTalki with a tutor, etc.) and having my phone in Japanese just sounds like hell to me.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#25

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

And maybe talk to people in Japanese? And do some writing? Not just passive consumption.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#26
I really like the UI’s use of screen real estate on mobile!

For studying N5 and N4, I’ve found Bunpro’s lesson grouping by JLPT levels a really nice format. It’s been encouraging seeing a progress bar for each step of the journey. I’d suggest looking for inspo there too if that interests you.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#27
Some constructive criticism:

1. For picking the kana answers, using the keyboard key is better than numbers. When you actually type an え, you type 'e', so it's a useful mapping to learn in terms of how IME works.

2. For vocabulary, there should be an option to turn off romaji in favor of kana only. No explanation needed I think

3. The vocab quiz, between kanji and just an english word, is an anti-pattern in my opinion. Recognizing the meaning if vocab in a full japanese sentence is a much better basic quiz, especially since not all words have 1-1 mappings. It also doesn't quiz on the reading, which seems weird. Also, an easy example of something confusing there is that 辺 is 'area', but if I see 'area' my first thought is 面積 (like the area of a triangle), while 辺 would be edge in that context... and my second thought is 地域, like "the area of the country I grew up in". I think 辺 is maybe 4th or 5th for 'area', and that's just because 'area' is a broad english word. My point is, quizzing vocab -> english word, without reading, without an example sentence, is a recipe to confuse learner's brains.

4. Same complaints as vocab for the kanji quiz, but moreso since kanji's meaning is more abstract.

The beautiful aesthetic and open-source way to learn Japanese is to make Anki flash cards, and customize the cards using html (which it already supports).

This entire site could have been anki decks, and then it would have had spaced repetition for free, and users could even more easily edit things to suit themselves ad add to it.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#28
post #19

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

Anki definitely works for memorizing the hell out of vocabulary and I also don't regret completing WaniKani, although I would probably choose an Anki only approach if I had to start over. At some intermediate level I stopped looking at the mnemonics completely and just did as many reviews as possible until it stuck.

I also got a lot of value out of wanikani even without completing it.

I tried and failed several times to get started with Anki before having success with Wanikani. The key diffentiator for me was the learning step. Anki is great for remembering things you were taught or learned outside of it, but using Anki to learn new things is very much a learned skill that Wanikani holds your hand through.

I have N2 and am working on N1 now, and feel I still have a very long way to go before getting to CEFR C1. Now I only use Anki with the yomitan and takoboto integrations to quickly add any words I look up, which seems to be working well.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#29

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

And maybe talk to people in Japanese? And do some writing? Not just passive consumption.

This is actually NOT recommended for a beginner.

Writing and speaking are effective at establishing long term memories, it's why we do it for other things, but a language learning beginner has no idea if what they're writing makes sense or if there's any subtle mistakes in how they're pronouncing words or how they're putting them together, etc.

Language learning experts don't recommend you start speaking/writing unless you have a coach or have reached an intermediate level so that you can discern when something sounds native or not. That way you can self evaluate with recordings, etc.

It is an effective tool for learning, but for self-learning you're gonna be shooting yourself in the foot long term. You should only do it if you have, say, a partner that speaks the language and doesn't mind correcting you all the time.

For Japanese I recommend that you do learn how to write kana/kanji from the start, and even some vocab if you want. But stop there. Don't write sentences, don't try to talk to japanese people on those apps/discord etc. and wait until you're at an intermediate level to do it, otherwise you'll form some very bad habits that are very hard to undo.

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