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I ditched Docker for Podman

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Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#61

Post by LelouBil »

xhrpost wrote: post #55
Izmaki wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of your companies need to worry about licenses. Docker ENGINE is free and open source. Docker DESKTOP is a software suite that requires you to purchase a license to use in a company. But Docker Engine, the core component which works on Linux, Mac and Windows through WSL2, that is completely and 1000% free to use.

From the official docs: >This section describes how to install Docker Engine on Linux, also known as Docker CE. Docker Engine is also available for Windows, macOS, and Linux, through Docker Desktop. https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ I'm not an expert but everything I read online says that Docker runs on Linux so with Mac you need a virtual environment like Docker Desktop, Colima, or Podman to run it.

Docker desktop will run a virtual machine for you. But you can simply install docker engine in wsl or in a VM on mac exactly like you would on linux (you give up maybe automatic port forwarding from the VM to your host)

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#62

Post by flerchin »

nickjj wrote: post #46
t43562 wrote: post #21

To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem: Podman rocks for me! I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

"officially supported" is not a value.

It's not the price, it's that there is one. 1 penny would be too much because it prevents compose-ability of dev workstations.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#63

Post by esseph »

mrighele wrote: post #42

> If your Docker Compose workflow is overly complex, just convert it to Kubernetes YAML. We all use Kubernetes these days, so why even bother about this? I find that kubernetes yaml are a lot more complex than docker compose. And while I do, no, not everybody uses kubernetes.

Having an LLM function as a translation layer from docker compose to k8s yaml works really well.

On another note, podman can generate k8s yaml for you, which is a nice touch and easy way to transition.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#66

Post by sc68cal »

tomrod wrote: post #2

Most of my containers end up on k8s clusters as pods. What else would one use podman or docker for beyond local dev or maybe running a local containerized service?

Someone has to manage your kubernetes environment. Depending on the nature of your workload, it may not be worth running kubernetes and instead just run everything via podman on your hosts. It really depends on how much investment you have in Kubernetes YAMLs.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#67

Post by nickjj »

akerl_ wrote: post #51
nickjj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win! Was this a deal breaker for any company? I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free. If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9…

The problem isn’t generally the cost, it’s the complexity. You end up having to track who has it installed. Hired 5 more people this week? How many of them will want docker desktop? Oh, we’ve maxed the licenses we bought? Time to re-open the procurement process and amend the purchase order.

A large company who is buying licenses for tools has to deal with this for many different things. Docker is not unique here.

An IT department for a company of that size should have ironed out workflows and automated ways to keep tabs on who has what and who needs what. They may also be under various compliance requirements that expect due diligence to happen every quarter to make sure everything is legit from a licensing perspective.

Even if it's not automated, it's normal for a team to email IT / HR with new hire requirements. Having a list of tools that need licenses in that email is something I've seen at plenty of places.

I would say there's lots of other tools where onboarding is more complicated from a license perspective because it might depend on if a developer wants to use that tool and then keeping tabs on if they are still using it. At least with Docker Desktop it's safe to say if you're on macOS you're using it.

I guess I'm not on board with this being a major conflict point.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#69

Post by jeffhuys »

spicyusername wrote: post #9
jeffhuys wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while we used it for scalable preview environments: specify the branch, hit deploy, and have a QA-able environment, with full database (anonymized) ready to go in 15 minutes (DB was time bottleneck). We ditched it for EC2s which were faster and more reliable while being cheaper, but that's beside the point. Locally I use OrbStack by the way, much less intrusive than Docker Desktop.

EC2 and containers are orthogonal technologies, though. Containers are the packaging format, EC2 is the infrastructure. (docker, crio, podman, kata, etc are the runtime) When deploying on EC2, you still need to deploy your software, and when using containers you still need somewhere to deploy to.

True; I conflate the two often. The EC2s run on an IAM image, same as production does, which before was a docker image.

Re: I ditched Docker for Podman

#70

Post by vbezhenar »

I did numerous attempts to switch from docker to podman. Latest one worked, and so far I didn't feel the need to get back to docker. There was only one issue that I had: huge uid didn't work in podman (like 1000000 I think), but I fixed the dockerfile and rest worked fine for me. podman-compose does not work well in my experience, but I don't use it anymore.
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