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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

theatlantic.com

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#141

Post by aDyslecticCrow »

wnc3141 wrote: post #46
AIorNot wrote: post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

The best format I ever learned math was with plain sheets of printer paper, essentially a page per problem letting me doodle the problem and really think it through freely. After working with the concepts we then logged on to Mathematica for visualizations to really cement the concepts.

Maths is probably the safest subject. Reading compression and writing is the dangerous stuff. Its arguably the most important subject in regular school, 2nd only to socialisation skills.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#142

Post by nyc_data_geek1 »

mystraline wrote: post #140

So, its a "Kids these days", written by a kid. I've seen the same commentary about: Spellcheck Typed material Computer art programs Calculators

This is fundamentally different. It replaces, and thus atrophies, cognitive faculties in a way the other tools you mentioned never aspired to.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#143

Post by Aurornis »

bee_rider wrote: post #80
zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

> Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they only way they could think of to ensure kids were doing things themselves. IMO getting too worried about this sort of homework “cheating” feels like the wrong way of looking at it. Although, there are lots of processes that accept and reinforce this wrong viewpoint. For k-12, getting the parent and the student to sit down outside of school and “cheat” by having the parent…

> For college, having students get together and “cheat” by doing their homework together is… victory! You’ve gotten the students to network with their peers. That’s… like, the main value proposition of a university, to some.

This is a far too charitable interpretation of the problem. Students who cheat in these circumstances aren’t working together with their peers or LLMs to understand the subject matter.

They’re using the LLM to bypass the learning part completely. Homework problem gets pasted into ChatGPT. Answer is copied and pasted out.

This is analogous to a student who copies a peer’s homework answers without trying to understand them.

This isn’t “learning to collaborate” or networking. It’s cheating.

In practice, it catches up to students at test time. This is the primary problem for my friend who teaches a couple classes at a local community college: Students will turn in LLM work for the assignments and then be completely blindsided when they have to come in and take a test, as if they’ve never seen the material before.

One time he assigned a short essay on a topic they discussed with a generic name. A large number of the submissions were about a completely unrelated thing that shared the generic name. It would not be possible for anyone to accidentally make this mistake if they were actually parsing the LLM output before turning it in. They just see it as an easy button to press to pass the course, until it catches up with them later and they’re too far behind to catch up to people who have been learning as they go.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#145

Post by DaSHacka »

oceanplexian wrote: post #101
nancyminusone wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homework is nothing more than the denial of childhood. I am very thankful I quit doing mine as soon as I could get away with it.

I barely made it out of high school because of homework. And flunked college mostly because of it. What was going on with computers was far too interesting, I'd spend 10 hours learning to code or playing around with Linux, go to school the next day with 4 hours of sleep and missed homework. It worked out though, and I wouldn't do things any differently given the chance.

You may be happy to learn that all of us who learn best like this are living large right now.

We can just GPT all our busywork assignments and get back to working on our personal research and projects.

I do feel a bit bad for the professors teaching the classes absolutely no one wants to take though (like "Global Issues" or "Gender Studies", the two most hated gen-ed courses at my uni). Everyone does the bare minimum to skate by with a C, so I imagine the professors probably revceive more GPT essays than not.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#146

Post by djoldman »

Unfortunately, this kind of story will continue to be a popular one in newspapers and magazines, garnering lots of clicks. It feeds into the "everything is different now" sort of desperate helplessness people seem primed to adopt with respect to AI sometimes.

Obviously the answer to testing and grading is to do it in the classroom. If a computer is required, it can't connect to the internet.

Caught with a cellphone, you fail the test. Caught twice you fail the class.

The non-story beatings will continue until morale and common sense improve.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#147

Post by mystraline »

nyc_data_geek1 wrote: post #142
mystraline wrote: post #140

So, its a "Kids these days", written by a kid. I've seen the same commentary about: Spellcheck Typed material Computer art programs Calculators

This is fundamentally different. It replaces, and thus atrophies, cognitive faculties in a way the other tools you mentioned never aspired to.

No, it isn't.

"Spellcheck removes the ability to spell"

"Calculators prevent you from doing math."

"Computer art will destroy real art"

"Typing text will destroy cursive and handwritten".

Same idea, that some form of tech will destroy something we should value.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#148

Post by gyomu »

rich_sasha wrote: post #52

It's weird. All of our attributes which we hold and value, and develop via a mix of genes and training - intelligence, but also strength, stamina, reflexes - we acquired, if you strip it all off to basics, to feed and to procreate. That's all evolution cares about. Now, we are social animals, and we grew to value these thing for their own right. Societies valued strength and bravery, as virtues, but I guess ultimatel…

It’s okay only if you’re okay deferring all power and agency to people who control the production and distribution of the tools.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#149

Post by glitchc »

monknomo wrote: post #136
glitchc wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterargument is : If there are no consequences, what is the incentive to bear responsibility? Ultimately this argument does not have a clear answer because it's driven by beliefs, not facts.

the consequences and responsibility fall on different parties. Children inherently cannot have responsibility because they are children. It's a wrong-headed counterargument. I'll agree that people can argue about the answer, but it is perfectly clear to me. I'd also say it's a value-system driven argument which I see as different than a belief driven argument

Beliefs separate from values.. that's a strange dichotomy. Do you harbour beliefs that conflict with your values?

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#150

Post by gwbas1c »

> or that they remove a sense of urgency from academics

That was one of my frustrations with "prep" school: An artificial sense of urgency that does not, in any way, reflect how one leads a happy, healthy, and successful life; nor does one need a sense of urgency in academics to grow into an adult who makes a positive contribution to society.

> Some students may use these tools to develop their understanding or explore topics more deeply, ... can also be used as a study aid

I think the same can be said about internet searches. Altavista came around when I was in high school; and I lost all motivation to memorize arcane facts. The same can also be said about books and libraries.

Instead, it's important to realize that a lot of topics taught in schools have to do with someone's agenda and opinion about what's important to know, and even political agendas; and then accept that many lessons from school are forgotten.

> Student assessments should be focused on tasks that are not easily delegated to technology: oral exams ... or personalized writing assignments ... Portfolio-based or presentational grading

Those are all time consuming; but they miss a bigger point: What's the real point of grades anyway?

Perhaps its time to focus on quality instead of quantity in education?

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