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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#51

Post by GianFabien »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #47
rented_mule wrote: post #44

An older analog is calculators. My college intro to stats course didn't allow them. We did simple arithmetic by hand and looked up things like roots and logs in tables. I still have my copy of this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0849306922 I just tutored my nephew through his college intro to stats course. Not only are calculators allowed, but they had a course web app so that all they did was select a dataset, select co…

What the surface level take about calculators misses is that the average person can't do arithmetic in their head because they don't need to, but they also don't pull out a calculator in the many times a day it would be useful, like at the grocery store. People make horrible decisions with everyday home economics math and are taken advantage of. The lesson isn't that we survived calculators, it's that they did dull u…

Actually the experience with calculators portends a dismal future.

Before calculators, i.e. slide rules, log tables, hand arithmetic: by the time engineers completed their university education most could approximate relevant parameters in their work to +/- 5% or the actual value. Slide rules would give you a result to 3 (rarely 4) significant decimals, but you needed to know the expected result to within half an order of magnitude.

After calculators, many graduate engineers will accept erroneous results from their calculations without noticing orders of magnitude discrepencies.

We constantly hear of spreadsheet errors making their way into critical projects.

With AI the risk is that even currently levels of critical thinking will be eroded.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#52

Post by rich_sasha »

It's weird. All of our attributes which we hold and value, and develop via a mix of genes and training - intelligence, but also strength, stamina, reflexes - we acquired, if you strip it all off to basics, to feed and to procreate. That's all evolution cares about.

Now, we are social animals, and we grew to value these thing for their own right. Societies valued strength and bravery, as virtues, but I guess ultimately because having brave strong soldiers made for more food and babies.

So over time, we tamed beasts and built tools, and most of these virtues kind of faded away. In our world of prosperity and machine power on tap, strength and bravery are not really extolled so much anymore. We work out because it makes us healthy and attractive, not because our societies demand this. We're happy to replace the hard work with a prosthetic.

Intelligence all these millenia was the outlier. The thing separating us from the animals. It was so inconceivable that it might be replaced that it is very deeply ingrained in us.

But if suddenly we don't need it? Or at least 95% of the population doesn't? Is it "ok" to lose it, like engineers of today don't rely on strength like blacksmiths used to? Maybe. Maybe it's ok that in 100 years we will all let our brains rot, occasionally doing a crossword as a work out. It feels sad, but maybe only in the way decline of swordsmanship felt to a Napoleonic veteran. The world moved on and we don't care anymore.

We lost so many skills that were once so key: the average person can't farm, can't forage, can't start a fire or ride a horse. And maybe it's ok. Or, who knows, maybe not.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#53

Post by spwa4 »

zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

> Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they only way they could think of to ensure kids were doing things themselves.

You mean, it's the only way they can prevent parents from doing anything from throwing a fit about disadvantaging their "disabled, but still very intelligent kid" (that they can't convince to put in any amount of effort) to suing the school outright.

You see, parents want kids to be great, or failures, based on their ego (which can go both ways. Some parents want their kids to be failures, and not a threat to their feelings, some parents want their kids to be the second coming (without any kind of effort on their or the kid's part), and 1/10 just want to know how they can help their kid. One BIG hint I'd give any new teacher is to not comment on a kid's performance to parents before knowing which kind of parents they are, and to help the kid by hiding failure or success to the parents of the 1st or 2nd group)

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#54

Post by OutOfHere »

superb_dev wrote: post #45
OutOfHere wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. There are kids who're struggling no matter how hard they try, because the teacher's explanation was miserable, or because they have to actually work part-time for a living. These kids need AI. Without AI they could risk being on the street when they turn 18. Later in life, when their life is more stable, these same kids will be the first to actually use AI to learn the then necessary concepts properly.

No one is going to be put on the streets because they lacked AI. Bad teachers and a bad economy are no reason to let kids outsource all their thinking to a machine when they’re still learning to think themselves.

Don't outsource your thinking to the one article. Different kids use AI in different ways. Many use it to help them learn. We still are in the very early stages of kids using AI to learn.

It's the role of the teacher to be a good explainer and to assign written exams that are doable only in class and only without any electronic help. The kids should not share blame for the teacher's shortcomings.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#55

Post by bdangubic »

textadventure wrote: post #31
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're judging without even knowing the content of the hypothetical alternative then is the difference just that one premise offends you while the other supports you?

Huh? I'm questioning the point of this pretentious article, that's all.

the only pretentious thing here was your original comment :)

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#56

Post by Anonyneko »

zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

I wish this had been a more common practice back when I was in school ~25 years ago. In my country (and former USSR places in general), it was very common for parents to do much of the homework for the children, as there was a lot of it and sometimes too hard for many of the kids to handle (at other times, parents wanted the kids to have better grades so they could brag about it).

I don't think I've ever seen a school essay back then that wasn't obviously written by a parent, i.e. the ye olde times version of "chatgpt write this for me". I'm of course no exception, even when I wasn't lazy my writers-by-trade folks heavily edited anything I had written as they would have found it shameful for me to present something in school wasn't "well-written".

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#57

Post by Anonyneko »

AIorNot wrote: post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

Back in the day we were writing code on paper (or on punched cards, using them as a paper substitute, as there were a lot of them left over from the Soviet times and they looked very "computer-y"), so even during computer classes you didn't necessarily need a computer. Not that I really think that it can still work in the year 2025 and beyond...

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#59

Post by danaris »

zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

There's also a lot of recent research that shows that mandatory homework does not improve learning outcomes.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#60

Post by jackstraw42 »

Anonyneko wrote: post #56
zdragnar wrote: post #5

I recently found out that my nephew's school had no take-home homework before high school, instead having kids complete assignments during class time. At first, I was flabbergasted that they would deny kids the discipline building of managing unstructured time without direct supervision. Homework- at home- seemed like such a fundamental part of the schooling experience. Now, I'm thinking that was pretty much they onl…

I wish this had been a more common practice back when I was in school ~25 years ago. In my country (and former USSR places in general), it was very common for parents to do much of the homework for the children, as there was a lot of it and sometimes too hard for many of the kids to handle (at other times, parents wanted the kids to have better grades so they could brag about it). I don't think I've ever seen a schoo…

> I don't think I've ever seen a school essay back then that wasn't obviously written by a parent, i.e. the ye olde times version of "chatgpt write this for me"

man. this didn't really exist in my midwest USA public education in the 90s/00s, I felt like I had to work hard for all of my grades and the teachers were actively trying to derail me from my goals. there was never a sense of, this work is an example of "good enough".

it wasn't until college that I had teachers who weren't so adversarial and actually seemed to care about teaching.

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