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Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

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Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#121

Post by SeanDav »

error54 wrote: post #112
SeanDav wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and what is/was wrong with slavery, after all every one was doing it and probably slaves on plantations had better living conditions than the people they came from living in the bush... Don't blame the poor plantation owners, they are just doing the same thing as all the others.... Sheesh, until now I never realized it was possible to have your head so far up your ass it ended up buried in the sand...

> and what is/was wrong with slavery Seriously?

Wow, some people REALLY don't get irony. My whole post was aimed at the parent post by emphasizing the ridiculousness of his argument by use of irony/sarcasm.

From the wikipedia definition of irony: "Ironic statements (verbal irony)[2] are statements that imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning."

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#122

Post by mseebach »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #24

Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…

The last few decades has seen the largest and fastest movement of people from absolute poverty to relative middle class. The last few years has seen factories along the coastal cities of China beginning to compete for labour by raising wages, because many migrant workers are choosing to move back to their inland cities, where the economy is beginning to flourish.

No, it's not pretty, and it's going to stay not pretty for a while. But buying goods from China, and buying a lot, is the best foreign aid money can buy.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#123

Post by philwelch »

Vivtek wrote: post #117
philwelch wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing impoverished people taking jobs of their own free will to chattel slavery?

If, as you say, they're impoverished, how free is their will? Are they 90% free? 50%?

Poverty is the state of nature.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#124

Post by [deleted] »

SeanDav wrote: post #88
deelowe wrote: post #53

This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…

and what is/was wrong with slavery, after all every one was doing it and probably slaves on plantations had better living conditions than the people they came from living in the bush... Don't blame the poor plantation owners, they are just doing the same thing as all the others.... Sheesh, until now I never realized it was possible to have your head so far up your ass it ended up buried in the sand...

[deleted]

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#125

Post by error54 »

SeanDav wrote: post #121
error54 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and what is/was wrong with slavery Seriously?

Wow, some people REALLY don't get irony. My whole post was aimed at the parent post by emphasizing the ridiculousness of his argument by use of irony/sarcasm. From the wikipedia definition of irony: "Ironic statements (verbal irony)[2] are statements that imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning."

Unfortunately, the world is still in such a sad state that your above comment could absolutely be construed as your own personal beliefs which is why I asked if you were serious lest I overreact and turn what would be an otherwise lively debate into uncouth name calling.

But thank you for the definition of the word irony. I wish you a good day.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#126

Post by chaostheory »

arrrg wrote: post #76
chaostheory wrote: post #37

The part I find strange is a reporter, who lives in a totalitarian country, was able to do an expose. I wonder how he got authorization?

China is not totalitarian. It's a prime example of an authoritarian regime. Of course, in the end it's all just a spectrum. Totalitarian regimes are just very extreme authoritarian regimes. Modern China, however, is far from being comparable to historic or current totalitarian regimes.

Well I'm still surprised an authoritarian regime, or however anyone would classify China, would allow such an exposé.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#127

Post by staunch »

It'd be so amazing if Apple decided to move all their manufacturing to the US. It seems impossible, but it's Apple, they have the money and ability to do it. It might take 10 years and lower their margins in the short-term, but I bet through automation they could eventually achieve parity with outsourcing. Not to mention that federal/state/local governments would be willing to grant massive incentives to make it happen. Hell, they could even add an optional $50 Made In America fee to every device for a while and a huge number of people would pay it.

Like every other technology hardware company they're addicted to cheap labor. Super automated factories are obviously where things are headed. Apple could lead the way in yet another way. In fact it's one thing Tim Cook could probably get done even better than Steve Jobs could have.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#128

Post by OriginalSyn »

aimatt wrote: post #82
Vivtek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's with this fixation on Foxconn and Apple? Apple is the most successful business in history. They have literally billions of dollars in the bank. The fact that they have reached this position by exploiting international labor conditions is dissonant with the glowing opinion of them in the American press. It is seen as hypocritical. From your tone, I infer that you think you may agree - but that you feel conflict…

I think he is trying to say that what this journalist is getting paid could be better or worse than other factories, but there's no way to tell reading this article. The author expects the reader to compare it to dollars as stated with the $4 wage. How many Yuan is that, and how many Yuan is a good living over there? I have a friend living in Shenzhen and he gets by on like $0.25 a day, living like a westerner. And o…

I was in China for a month, there's no way you can get away "living like a westerner" on $0.25 USD/day maybe living like a poor Chinese peasant. But just taking a bus somewhere costs around 15 cents.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#129

Post by dasil003 »

Vivtek wrote: post #115
philwelch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that they have reached this position by exploiting international labor conditions... Exploitation is not a fact; it's a judgment.

Exploitation of a resource is a fact. Treating human beings as an exploitable resource is also a fact - it's the very basis of modern management. If it has negative connotations, perhaps you should examine why you feel so negatively about it.

If you're referring to the fact without the connotation then it's more accurate to see it's the basis of all human trade dating to prehistoric times and indeed the basis of all entity relationships in the natural world.

Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn

#130

Post by SeanDav »

error54 wrote: post #125
SeanDav wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, some people REALLY don't get irony. My whole post was aimed at the parent post by emphasizing the ridiculousness of his argument by use of irony/sarcasm. From the wikipedia definition of irony: "Ironic statements (verbal irony)[2] are statements that imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning."

Unfortunately, the world is still in such a sad state that your above comment could absolutely be construed as your own personal beliefs which is why I asked if you were serious lest I overreact and turn what would be an otherwise lively debate into uncouth name calling. But thank you for the definition of the word irony. I wish you a good day.

Sorry about my somewhat harsh reply. I come from the UK where irony/sarcasm use is far more common than it appears to be by our cousins in USA. I sometimes forget this and really should use more neutral arguments!
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