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Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
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Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#72This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…
The person writing the article is trying to change the working conditions in that factory (also in other factories). They are doing this by finding out the conditions and pointing them out at an opportune moment in time. They are trying to get Apple to put pressure on Foxconn.
It's irrelevant if Foxconn is twice as good as other companies. Sounds like they could be 3 times as good and still need improvement.
HN is full of stories about how to get your startup into the media and about startups wanting to change the world. This person is trying to use media coverage of the iPhone 5 to help people directly. Good on them.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your philosophy is to ignore the things you don't like? That may help you sleep better at night, but the world doesn't stop turning when you close your eyes. IMHO a better philosophy is accept the hypocrisy of willful indifference or try to make a difference. I don't find willful indifference to be 'action'.
Big words. The Internet is full of windbags asserting we need to make a difference. Notice how none of these people ever seem to attempt to do so? They usually limit themselves to vacuous back-of-a-cornflake-packet, trendy posturing like this.
...Which is why the first option in my philosophy is accepting the hypocrisy. I actually am totally fine with slave labor because it's much easier than the latter option: doing something about it.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#74Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. There are some interesting bits in there from the perspective of understanding the manufacturing process, but in terms of the worker conditions and so on, it's nothing new and anyone for whom this is news has presumably been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years and making a concious effort not to think about ho…
>Anyone who has significant issues with this needs to stop buying anything marked made in China. ... That's not to make light of the conditions, just to say that we're all somewhat complicit and any outrage needs to be matched with action, not just against Apple but against anyone using Foxconn or their peers.
Not buying Chinese is very difficult and the amount of people with the dedication to do this is miniscule and won't make an impact. Shaming the most profitable company in the world into either switching to a more ethical manufacturing partner or pressuring its manufacturing partner to improve working conditions is more likely to succeed. Success with this will increase the odds of success with other Western companies indirectly profiting from bad treatment of workers.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#75People who are in disgust in Foxconn incident should also look into the factories where cloths they were wearing are made http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/may-18-20... . It is standard rule in capitalization. Businesses have to get goods/materials from the cheapest source available. No questions asked about how the supplier achieves it as long as it doesn't get worse. And yes, this article is pure p…
And sometimes suppliers also save on fire safety with some disastrous consequences
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/12/pakistan-factory...
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#76The part I find strange is a reporter, who lives in a totalitarian country, was able to do an expose. I wonder how he got authorization?
China is not totalitarian. It's a prime example of an authoritarian regime.
Of course, in the end it's all just a spectrum. Totalitarian regimes are just very extreme authoritarian regimes. Modern China, however, is far from being comparable to historic or current totalitarian regimes.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#77A few things to note: - The job was taken voluntarily - The employee can resign at any time - The pay is not horrible. $2/hr for overtime is very high for China, and much higher than could be made at most jobs outside of professional occupations in major cities. Working in a factory in China is not a glorious undertaking, but it is not (in this case) slave labor nor is it unethical. The author suggests robots could d…
This.
And besides, isn't Apple something like 0.001% of Chinese manufacturing output? Apple isn't the problem; if anything Apple may well be the strongest force for positive change at Foxconn.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#78This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…
So wait: because these workers are Chinese, and their working conditions are better than other Chinese factories, they shouldn't be demanding better conditions?
Got it. So because people lost the genetic lottery and were born in China, they're lesser than you, and don't deserve the same rights and privileges that you do.
I'd like to see you try and work in these conditions and then try to have the same opinion. This Western attitude of shitting on "3rd-world" countries just appals me. As the child of immigrant parents in Canada, I'm absolutely grateful that I was able to escape this world. But I'm sure you'd love to send us back.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#79This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…
what's with this fixation on Foxconn and Apple?
Apple is the most successful business in history. They have literally billions of dollars in the bank. The fact that they have reached this position by exploiting international labor conditions is dissonant with the glowing opinion of them in the American press. It is seen as hypocritical.
From your tone, I infer that you think you may agree - but that you feel conflict, and conceal that from yourself by lashing out at the messenger.
It is not a valid excuse to say they're Chinese, any more than it is valid to allow West Virginian mine workers to die of black lung to provide cheap heat for Philadelphia.
Injustice doesn't have to be in your own street for it to be injustice.
Re: Journalist goes undercover making the iPhone 5 at Foxconn
#80This "journalist" puts 1 single Chinese company under a microscope and incites people of first world nations to pick up their pitch forks and torches in protest. Sure the conditions at Foxconn are terrible in comparison to my world view, but I'm not Chinese and my world view is irrelevant here. You know how I know this article is trash? This statement right here: "It also appears that windows have had bars put over t…
The person writing the article is trying to change the working conditions in that factory (also in other factories). They are doing this by finding out the conditions and pointing them out at an opportune moment in time. They are trying to get Apple to put pressure on Foxconn. It's irrelevant if Foxconn is twice as good as other companies. Sounds like they could be 3 times as good and still need improvement. HN is fu…
> This person is trying to use media coverage of the iPhone 5 to help people directly. Good on them.
Is it really helping them, though?
Improving working conditions and the wellbeing of employees costs money. Put pressure on Apple/Foxconn to spend more on labor in China and there'll come a point where they just move production elsewhere, leaving these Chinese people without any jobs.
Let's not forget these people are working in these factories voluntarily. The working conditions might be a bit crap, but the employees are choosing to endure them at their current wage.