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Depression lies

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Re: Depression lies

#101

Post by mediacrisis »

paraschopra wrote: post #83
mquander wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your despair and anxiety don't result from your philosophical beliefs, which should be trivially obvious since lots of people share your beliefs and do not regularly suffer from despair and anxiety. You can feel how you please, but you aren't being faced with the binary choice of "believe X and be sad" or "disbelieve X and be happy." You also have the choice of "change whatever weird thing in your head correlates a b…

Interesting point. That is precisely what I fear: if I fix the unhappiness would my philosophical beliefs get diluted. Maybe that won't be the case, but I don't know that right now. There may be Nihilists out there who are very happy and never feel any despair, and that's what I'm after too. Nihilism definitely doesn't mean you should be unhappy. In fact, in light of no meaning, the sole purpose should be to seek hap…

I think its difficult for anyone to feel constantly happy and blissful. At what point is it happiness if its your baseline? In my opinion and experience, despair gives context to happiness.

Re: Depression lies

#102

Post by danteembermage »

kakaroto_BR wrote: post #97

I'm in this situation right now. I will try to pass this with some therapy and exercises, because the medication decreases libido and I don't want to lose my girlfriend.

I would hope your girlfriend would have the maturity and care for you that this wouldn't put your relationship in danger. You know 50% of sexually active people are in a relationship where their partner is less interested in sex than they are on average (inevitable logic, not statistics) and if you break it down to year by year interest that number must go up (again logic).

That said, I'm going to make the brash counter-cultural statement that if you wait until after you commit to each other for life before having sex, then you worry a lot less about whether you are going to lose your partner over sex. If a necessary medication causing a libido blip is enough to derail your relationship, maybe you should consider pushing sex further up the commitment ladder?

Re: Depression lies

#103

Post by roguecoder »

nkurz wrote: post #69
bad_user wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really work? My guess is that's just how slim people tell fat people that laziness got them fat and so they should do more exercise, i.e. people that never suffered from a certain condition giving advice to people suffering from that condition. " I failed the test because I'm stupid " - that's just how I felt when I got rejected after an onsite interview with a certain company that's renowned for its hiring s…

Does it really work? Statistically, CBT combined with medication is currently the most effective clinical treatment for depression. Personally, having tried a number of sessions, I think it works very well for some, and not so well for others. If your tendency is to blame yourself for things that are beyond your control, it may be a great aid. If instead you want to understand the world so as to make it better, CBT p…

The problem is that it's not just about the patient. None of those studies address what happens to the people around you if you start blaming them for your screw ups. This is the problem with evidence-based treatment: you end up with treatments optimized for whatever outcome you are measuring and not addressing the actual problem.

This is the difference I've personally seen between CBT and other forms of therapy that don't focus on evidence-free self-talk (including DBT and EMDR). I know CBT reduces depression; I have yet to see any evidence that it makes one a better, more empathic person or more pleasant to be around. It doesn't teach skills that are useful in interpersonal relationships.

The problem with insight-oriented therapy is that you have to actually find a therapist with insight. The job just doesn't seem to pay enough to often attract the level of intellect that it requires. It also tends to make symptoms worse for a bit while one gives up denial and avoidance. On the other hand, it doesn't require rejecting the idea of truth or lying one's self better.

Re: Depression lies

#104

Post by roguecoder »

paraschopra wrote: post #82
orangeduck wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately nihilism is non-prescriptive as to how you should behave or feel. Under nihilism you can very easily turn "Why Bother?" into "Why Not?", or "Why do I exist?" into "Why would I not exist?" - because all are meaningless questions. At least this is how I deal with the fatalist aspect. Live you life as you would "normally", take the actions you think are best and do what gives you emotional fulfilment. Nihilis…

It's not that a man secretly wants meaning but the facts deny any such thing. I guess evolution has programmed the man to seek meaning (from a psychological point of view). So no matter what intellectually he believes in, there would be a certain push to crave for that meaning that in reality doesn't exist. Thus the despair on the helplessness of situation. I know using medication or treatment I can block that cravin…

The way I've seen it is that the quest for meaning is something to give up, to let go of, and so accept the joy of a transient experience. It is like experiential art: part of the point is that it will only happen once, for no reason whatsoever. You can either be sad that life is frivolous, or you can marvel that something so complex as this cosmos exists for no reason at all.

Sometimes I look around a busy store and think about the massive coincidence in all these independent intelligences having come about and came to be here right now, buying detergent, and I am overwhelmed with the beauty of it. Not because it means anything, but because it doesn't have to. It just is, like fractals or recursion, and just like those forms of emergent beauty, that awe makes me happier than I could ever be striving for something that doesn't exist.

I'd recommend looking into Buddhism and ignoring the bits about reincarnation and karma; the rest of it is basically Nihilistic and still leads to contented, happy lives (after all, the ultimate reward in some branches is total annihilation.) I personally assume that the purpose of doing good things is because we have a choice: we can make the world better or we can make the world worse. With no reason to do one over the other, what kind of asshole chooses to make the world worse? Especially since they then have to live in that worse world. It's just stupid.

Re: Depression lies

#105

Post by jetti »

I'll preface this with the fact that I know that people will see me as being cold or just generally not agree with my opinion but I am going to share it with you all anyways.

I have experienced this first hand. I have attempted suicide twice in my life and have gotten help for it. Because of my experience, I think I have come out of it with a different view which is this:

Suicide is somebody's choice and theirs only to make. Does it affect others? Yes, of course. But I still believe that it is up to the individual to make that choice. I remember thinking after my attempts and hearing how it is a "selfish way out" that the my family too, was being selfish, for I was suffering and medication and therapy just wasn't doing anything yet they selfishly wanted me in their lives just as I wanted to end my life and stop all of the pain.

A few other things that I just want to throw out there because I'm experience an odd flood of emotion. The assumption that suicide is bad is solely based on the notion that life is better than what lies beyond, which is something we just don't know. Also, people call suicide the cowards way out or giving up. I just don't see that. To me, it is just not delaying the inevitable. We all die. It is a fact.

Re: Depression lies

#106

Post by the_economist »

rubashov wrote: post #84

I thought I was depressed and anxious for almost two years. It turned out I just had a chronic sinus infection. I'm suspicious that a lot of what gets considered as psychiatric problems are really physical health problems. Anecdotally, a lot of people switch to a nutrient dense diet and cut out potential allergens and wind up feeling all better.

Not just anecdotally -- plenty of studies confirm this. Some people -- 30% of the people by some estimates -- simply suffer from fructose malabsorption. This means that when they eat foods with excess fructose (even fruit), they fail to properly absorb nutrients.

In particular, individuals who suffer from fructose malabsorption fail to absorb tryptophan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose_malabsorption

Tryptophan deficiency is extremely common in depressed individuals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2148339

Tryptophan is a serotonin precursor, so to anyone who has ever taken an SSRI, it intuitively makes some sense that it could be related to happiness.

Sadly, no one wants to be told that their diet is a problem, or that they have to do all the hard work of changing their diet. They just go for a pill. Which wouldn't even be so bad, if the pills we made were truly effective and side-effect free. But they aren't.

Re: Depression lies

#107

Post by mortalkastor »

kakaroto_BR wrote: post #97

I'm in this situation right now. I will try to pass this with some therapy and exercises, because the medication decreases libido and I don't want to lose my girlfriend.

Not all medications decrease libido, and depression by itself does. Thus you may actually see an increase with drugs.

Re: Depression lies

#108

Post by expralitemonk »

roguecoder wrote: post #104
paraschopra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that a man secretly wants meaning but the facts deny any such thing. I guess evolution has programmed the man to seek meaning (from a psychological point of view). So no matter what intellectually he believes in, there would be a certain push to crave for that meaning that in reality doesn't exist. Thus the despair on the helplessness of situation. I know using medication or treatment I can block that cravin…

The way I've seen it is that the quest for meaning is something to give up, to let go of, and so accept the joy of a transient experience. It is like experiential art: part of the point is that it will only happen once, for no reason whatsoever. You can either be sad that life is frivolous, or you can marvel that something so complex as this cosmos exists for no reason at all. Sometimes I look around a busy store and…

+1 on recommending Buddhism the philosophy, as distinct from Buddhism the religion. The philosophy teaches that everything changes, and all you have is now, so keep your mind on the now and the later will take care of itself.

Mindfulness meditation is extremely useful in tamping down panic attacks or dealing with chronic physical pain.

Re: Depression lies

#109

Post by Evbn »

jmitcheson wrote: post #37
jhuckestein wrote: post #11

one in four adults suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year This is something that frightens me. What is a "diagnosable mental disorder"? I'm willing to bet this statement was far from true 50 or a 100 years ago. Not because I think people got more depressed or anxious, but rather because we're looking harder to "diagnose" things. I think there's a big danger, especially in psychological afflictions,…

I think you are right that these things were less common 50 or a 100 years ago, but consider this (first comment on the blog) "It’s not a job that I want, or that I even feel really suited for, and it’s not paying what I need, but after 11 months of unemployment, you take what you can get. I’m not going to spill all my guts here, but life is really starting to suck for me, mostly because I’m shoulder-deep in debt and…

50 or 100 years ago a person might have flat out starved in the street, or died of an illness that no money could buy a cure for at the time.

Modern life causes more depression because basic necessities of life are too easy (on a historcal scale) and so our brains are too idle most of the time, so they get caught on logic bugs.

Re: Depression lies

#110

Post by neutronicus »

the_economist wrote: post #106
rubashov wrote: post #84

I thought I was depressed and anxious for almost two years. It turned out I just had a chronic sinus infection. I'm suspicious that a lot of what gets considered as psychiatric problems are really physical health problems. Anecdotally, a lot of people switch to a nutrient dense diet and cut out potential allergens and wind up feeling all better.

Not just anecdotally -- plenty of studies confirm this. Some people -- 30% of the people by some estimates -- simply suffer from fructose malabsorption. This means that when they eat foods with excess fructose (even fruit), they fail to properly absorb nutrients. In particular, individuals who suffer from fructose malabsorption fail to absorb tryptophan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose_malabsorption Tryptophan…

Or, you know, they just believe that non-doctor people telling them it will get all better if they just eat X are out of their minds.
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