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Are we decentralized yet?

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Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#81

TIL about the Herfindahl–Hirschman Index and I wanted to test it with a weird corner-case that I remember. At one point in the late 1980's Microsoft had a GREATER than 100% market share of the Macintosh spreadsheet market. How is this possible? Market share (for a given period) is the participant's sales in the market divided by total sales. It just so happened that Lotus had more returns than sales of their failed s…

I have diligently searched for this article online and have been unable to find it. (It might be on microfiche somewhere...)

I did however, find this humorous anecdote:

> A Lotus executive later joked, "The first month we shipped 62,000 copies, and the following month we got 64,000 copies back. It was such a failure they sent us the bootlegged copies back."

https://www.forbes.com/2003/12/16/cx_el_macslide.html

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#82

TIL about the Herfindahl–Hirschman Index and I wanted to test it with a weird corner-case that I remember. At one point in the late 1980's Microsoft had a GREATER than 100% market share of the Macintosh spreadsheet market. How is this possible? Market share (for a given period) is the participant's sales in the market divided by total sales. It just so happened that Lotus had more returns than sales of their failed s…

HHI is a super useful metric -- glad you like it!

The squared sum of normalized shares proves to be very useful in a lot of contexts -- not just market share. Voting is one great example.

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#83
Sadly, and fortunately, there is no such thing as "avoiding centralization", the evidence is overwhelming:

== Politics & Sociology (power concentrates in organizations)

- Robert Michels, Political Parties (1911) origin of the "iron law of oligarchy": even democratic groups tend to end up run by a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

- Jo Freeman, "The Tyranny of Structurelessness" (1970/72): leaderless groups develop informal, unaccountable elites unless they make structure explicit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessne...

- Max Weber, bureaucracy & rational-legal authority: why modern societies gravitate to rule-bound, hierarchical administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational-legal_authority

- James G. March & Herbert A. Simon, Organizations (1958): classics on bounded rationality and why attention/decision bottlenecks yield hierarchy: https://www.amazon.se/-/en/James-G-March/dp/0471567930

== Economics & Political Economy (why markets/platforms centralize)

- Ronald Coase, "The Nature of the Firm" (1937): firms exist (and grow) when internal coordination is cheaper than market exchange: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0335.1937...

- Oliver Williamson, Markets and Hierarchies (1975): transaction-cost economics: asset specificity & opportunism push activity into hierarchies: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1496220

- W. Brian Arthur, "Increasing Returns and Lock-In" (1989): small early advantages + network effects => path-dependent monopolies: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2234208

- Katz & Shapiro, network effects (1985/1994): compatibility and standards help explain winner-take-most dynamics: https://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/shapiro/systems.pdf

- Thomas Piketty, Capital in the Twenty-First Century (2014): when r > g, wealth concentrates; proposes progressive wealth taxation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Ce...

== Networks, Complexity & Information (why hubs and hierarchies emerge)

Albert-László Barabási, Linked (2002): preferential attachment makes networks develop hubs (central nodes) http://networksciencebook.com/chapter/5

Herbert A. Simon, "The Architecture of Complexity" (1962): complex systems often become hierarchical because modular hierarchies are easier to evolve and manage https://faculty.sites.iastate.edu/tesfatsi/archive/tesfatsi/...

W. Ross Ashby, "Law of Requisite Variety" (1956): controllers need at least as much "variety" as the environment and it often pushes toward central coordinating mechanisms (or many distributed ones with enough capacity) http://pcp.vub.ac.be/books/AshbyReqVar.pdf

Gilbert & Lynch, proof of the CAP theorem (2002): in distributed computing you can’t have perfect consistency + availability under network partitions and real systems centralize/compromise to cope: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/tds/papers/Gilbert/Brewer2.pdf

Robert K. Merton, "The Matthew Effect" (1968): cumulative advantage: success attracts more success, reinforcing centralization of recognition/resources https://garfield.library.upenn.edu/merton/matthew1.pdf

== State power, legibility & infrastructure (why governments centralize)

James C. Scott, Seeing Like a State (1998): states seek legibility and large projects favor central plans and standardized populations/landscapes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State (literally anything by Jim Scott -RIP- will be useful)

Tim Wu, The Master Switch (2010): communications industries cycle from openness to centralized "information empires" https://www.amazon.com/Master-Switch-Rise-Information-Empire...

== Technology & platforms (contemporary centralization)

Nick Srnicek, Platform Capitalism (2017): explains how platform business models + data/network effects produce concentration https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Platform+Capitalism-p-9781509504...

== When decentralization can work

Elinor Ostrom, Governing the Commons (1990): shows conditions (clear rules, monitoring, graduated sanctions, polycentric governance) under which decentralized, federated management of shared resources succeed https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/governing-the-commons/A...

----

the literature making a counterpoint is abundant / overwhelming but that feels bleak considering when reading these works, systems thinking )the basis for "la technique") favors centralization

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#84
post #14

I'd like to see Nostr added to this, since userbase concentration is always the thing they levy against the fedi model. It'd be a little weird to adapt because user identities don't live on single relays.

It would be weirdly represented since most clients push to multiple relays while the account so to speak is a public key pair on the user's device.

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#85
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running a PDS server for yourself and a few friends is not very expensive afaik, but there's also not much benefit to doing so, because the point of the PDS is to have a clean separation between your own data and the rest of the network. The expensive things in ATProto are the Relay (crawls/listens to PDSs to produce the firehose) and the AppView (keeps a DB of all posts/likes/etc to serve users' requests). Expensive…

Running a relay is not expensive anymore (it used to be), with recent changes it's about $30/mo. Running an AppView that ingests all ongoing Bluesky traffic (and puts it into database) is more expensive ($300/mo currently) but if you were happy with a partial view of the network, you could get it down by a lot.

I'm admittedly not versed in the AT protocol, but $30/month is high for me. Something like $10/month is quite fair, and i would expect should be more than enough for a VPS to host my and 2 other members of my family for any social network service...This $10/month is overkill for other servers on the ActivityPub via say gotosocial, pleroma, etc. Not that ActivityPub is perfect or anything like that, i just mean that $30/month is not yet what i would call a sweet spot for self-hosting something...but of course, that is absolutely leagues better than any cost that the bluesky team or other bigger players would naturally have to pay for ongoing infra., etc.

Then again, i will not deny that there's also the possibility that i am simply cheap! :-)

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The story sounds fishy, but one way to have returns exceed sales is to ship 1,000 to stores on consignment, the store sells 500 of those for cash, the buyers return their 500 for refunds, and the store returns the remaining unsold 500. So 500 actual sales but 1,000 returns.

>So 500 actual sales but 1,000 returns.

Sure. As long as we keep in mind that "return" doesn't mean "reverted sale", but "reverted shipment to retail".

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#88
post #82

TIL about the Herfindahl–Hirschman Index and I wanted to test it with a weird corner-case that I remember. At one point in the late 1980's Microsoft had a GREATER than 100% market share of the Macintosh spreadsheet market. How is this possible? Market share (for a given period) is the participant's sales in the market divided by total sales. It just so happened that Lotus had more returns than sales of their failed s…

HHI is a super useful metric -- glad you like it! The squared sum of normalized shares proves to be very useful in a lot of contexts -- not just market share. Voting is one great example.

Sounds depressing (i.e. ~5000 in a typical US election)

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#89

So why not just wordpress and rss?

We've had the protocols and tech for decentralized services for 20+ years. The problem isn't the tech, it's the users! Your average Joe simply doesn't have 'must be decentralized' in their requirements. I'm guessing this is due to lack of education on the matter.

But, yes I agree with you :)

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#90

Sadly, and fortunately, there is no such thing as "avoiding centralization", the evidence is overwhelming: == Politics & Sociology (power concentrates in organizations) - Robert Michels, Political Parties (1911) origin of the "iron law of oligarchy": even democratic groups tend to end up run by a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy - Jo Freeman, "The Tyranny of Structurelessness" (1970/72): leade…

The Internet itself is decentralized, which made it extremely resilient. So is democracy.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

The article cites a few notable counterexamples like Wikipedia. Your post looks like learned helplessness.

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