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New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

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Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#31
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still maintain that we're not just a simulation, we're a screensaver on the computer of some extradimensional office worker who has been out of office for their version of a weekend.

You might like this: https://qntm.org/responsibilit

Everything by qntm is phenomenal if a bit rough around the edges. Fine Structure was one of my favorites, along with There is No Antimemetics Division, which is now being published as a proper book!

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#32
> Boltzmann’s model also ignored the influence of gravity, which is often described as an anti-entropic force due to its clumping effects on matter.

I never heard something like that. Gravity follows the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#33

>>>>> Consciousness, creativity, love — all of these things are destined to disappear as the universe becomes increasingly disordered and dissolves into entropy. Those are evolved traits, and it seems more likely that evolution will replace them with some other traits within a time frame that will be like the blink of an eye compared to the projected decay of the universe.

They evolved for pretty strong reasons that have been around a lot longer than a blink of an eye. Namely, collaboration and creativity are extremely good survival strategies.

Flies do equally well, if not better.

The only problem for earth life is that anything less intelligent than a human cannot leave the planet with significant chances of survival. Bacteria can however take a ride in our space probes and get a minuscule chance to colonize e.g. Mars [1].

What will go to the end of the universe is self-replicating robots. We have already made the first step in that direction with the AI that makes the headlines currently.

No art, no love, no dreams, just brute force.

[1] https://astrobiology.com/2022/12/planetary-protection-killin...

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#34
post #2

As such, the second law appears to hold a chilling prophecy for humanity in the very long term. The idea that our species is so uniquely capable of transcending extinction and surviving long enough for the fate of the universe to be relevant to it is optimistic to the point of absurdity. It fits the evidence better to suppose that we're particularly capable of self destruction.

Edit: nevermind, I agree I misunderstood the parent comment. It's a common response to any interest in the destiny of humanity: "what's so special about humanity? What about bacteria, huh?" I don't know, I'm human and humans tend to be social and interested in their own species? Is that weird? Does that not apply to you? Do you consider it petty and parochial to be more interested in one's own species? Are you "above…

That's not what the parent comment is saying at all. There's a difference between being interested in your own species and thinking your own species is somehow above the risk of eventual destruction.

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#35
post #2

As such, the second law appears to hold a chilling prophecy for humanity in the very long term. The idea that our species is so uniquely capable of transcending extinction and surviving long enough for the fate of the universe to be relevant to it is optimistic to the point of absurdity. It fits the evidence better to suppose that we're particularly capable of self destruction.

Not to mention the existence fallacy - the human tendency to think that it's BETTER for the species to exist forever. I'm not sure that's true.

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#36
post #27

Practically stars are mostly burned out in another 50 billion years and radioisotopes that produce a heat gradient will also be mostly decayed by then. Eventually good tidal energy situations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_heating_of_Io will end as well since this kind of situation changes the orbits. So energy for life and usable thermal gradients will disappear even if entropy will continue to increase fo…

I've had plans for a sci-fi book I plan to never write that takes place in the ultra far future. The chapters' numbers would be the time dilation scale in a base 10 logarithm. The book would be made up of a series of short stories told from the point of view of a "time coast guard" rescuing idiots who refuse to time dilate from their creaking space hulks. A later (set?) of chapters might just be in the 90+ scale; at…

For anyone interested, Vernor Vinge does something like this but minus the massive scale, in Marooned in Realtime. Set 50 million years in the future. My all time favorite sci-fi fwiw.

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#37
post #8

Slightly tangential, but does anyone know of a good layman's book on thermodynamics? I'm interested in the science and the history of it, but I'm not really trying to do a deep dive into the math -- I wasn't bad in stats or calc but that was decades ago now and I haven't really used them since...

I've not read this particular book but I like Arieh Ben-Naim's approach:

Four Laws That Do Not Drive The Universe, The: Elements Of Thermodynamics For The Curious And Intelligent

https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/10531

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#38
post #2

As such, the second law appears to hold a chilling prophecy for humanity in the very long term. The idea that our species is so uniquely capable of transcending extinction and surviving long enough for the fate of the universe to be relevant to it is optimistic to the point of absurdity. It fits the evidence better to suppose that we're particularly capable of self destruction.

Humans are the only species in the known* universe to have deliberately left their home planet. We may not be fully capable of it, but we are indeed more capable of transcending extinction than any other known species.

* - which is certainly a small sample

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#39

If the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply does that mean we can build our perpetual motion machine?

dark energy is the ultimate free lunch. it's like the more you spread butter on your toast, the more toast you get and the more butter gets spread out.

Re: New interpretations suggest the "heat death" hypothesis might not hold (2023)

#40
post #27

Practically stars are mostly burned out in another 50 billion years and radioisotopes that produce a heat gradient will also be mostly decayed by then. Eventually good tidal energy situations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_heating_of_Io will end as well since this kind of situation changes the orbits. So energy for life and usable thermal gradients will disappear even if entropy will continue to increase fo…

I've had plans for a sci-fi book I plan to never write that takes place in the ultra far future. The chapters' numbers would be the time dilation scale in a base 10 logarithm. The book would be made up of a series of short stories told from the point of view of a "time coast guard" rescuing idiots who refuse to time dilate from their creaking space hulks. A later (set?) of chapters might just be in the 90+ scale; at…

It's quite a bit different from that description, but Diaspora by Greg Egan deals with some impressive scales of time and space. The tone is nothing like you're describing, but the ideas and scale in it totally changed how I think about about im/mortality.
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