Earlier quoted context omitted.
Too bad engineers were “too important” to unionize because their/our labor is “too special .” I think you could find 10,000 quotes from HN alone why SDEs were immune to labor market struggles that would need a union Oh well, good luck everyone.
I'm not necessarily opposed to unionization in general but it's never going to save many US software industry jobs. If a unionization drive succeeds at some big tech company then the workers might do well for a few years. But inevitably a non-union startup competitor with a lower cost structure and more flexible work rules will come along and eat their lunch. Then all the union workers will get laid off anyway. Union…
AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
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Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's read the paper instead: https://digitaleconomy.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/... It presents a difference-in-differences ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difference_in_differences ) design that exploits staggered adoption of generative AI to estimate the causal effect on productivity. It compares headcount over time by age group across several occupations, showing significant differentials across age grou…
I appreciate the link to differences in differences, I didn't know what to call this method. The OP's point could still be valid: it’s still possible that macro factors like inflation, interest rates, or tariffs land harder on the exact group they label ‘AI-exposed.’ That makes the attribution messy.
pg. 19, "We run this regression separately for each age group."
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#283Note upfront: I'm not suggesting AI is not having an impact. That would be foolish. But I will say there's *a lot* less to the conclusion of this study, simply because the data is questionable. It's not that they did anything wrong per se. I won't say that here because it'll end up a HN cluster fuck. Cluster fuck aside, the caveats and associated doubt are enough to say, "Don't bet the farm on this study." Great bander for the bar? Sure.
It's an interesting study but I've seen it called "absolute proof" and other type things. Don't be fooled, it's not that.
https://digitaleconomy.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/...
From the original study:
> "This study uses data from ADP, the largest payroll processing firm in America. The company provides payroll services for firms employing over 25 million workers in the US. We use this information to track employment changes for workers in occupations measured as more or less exposed to artificial intelligence"
a) I'm calling this out because I've seen posts on LinkedIn saying it was a sample of 25M. Nope! ADP simply does payroll for that many.
b) The size of the US workforce is ~165M, making ADP's coverage ~15% of the workforce.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191750/civilian-labor-fo...
c) Do the business ADP server come from particular industries, are of a particular size, in particular geographic locations? etc.? It's not only about the size of the sample - which we'll get to shortly - but the nature of the companies - which we'll also get to shortly.
> "We make several sample restrictions for our main analysis sample."
d) It's great that they say this, but it should raise an eyebrow.
> "We include only workers employed by firms that use ADP’s payroll product to maintain worker earnings records. We also exclude employees classified by firms as part-time from the analysis and subset to people between the age of 18 and 70."
e) Translation: we did a slight bit of pruning (read: cherry-picking).
> "The set of firms using payroll services changes over time as companies join or leave ADP’s platform. We maintain a consistent set of firms across our main sample period by keeping only companies that have employee earnings records for each month from January 2021 through July 2025."
f) Translation: More cherry-picking.
> "In addition, ADP observes job titles for about 70% of workers in its system. We exclude workers who do not have a recorded job title."
g) Translation: More cherry-picking.
> "After these restrictions we have records on between 3.5 and 5 million workers each month for our main analysis sample, though we consider robustness to alternative analyses such as allowing for firms to enter and leave the sample."
h) 3.5M to 5.0M feels like a large enough sample... if it wasn't so "restricted." Furthermore, there's no explanation on the 1.5M delta, and how adding or removing that much impacts the analysis.
i) And they considered that why? And did what they did why? It's a significant assumpt that gets nothing more than a hand wave?
> "While the ADP data include millions of workers in each month, the distribution of firms using ADP services does not exactly match the distribution of firms across the broader US economy."
j) Translation: as mentioned above ADP !== a representation of the broader economy.
> "Further details on differences in firm composition can be found in Cajner et al. (2018) and ADP Reserch (2025)."
j) Great there's a citation, but given the acknowledgement of the delta isn't at least a line or two in order? Something about the nature of the delta, and THEN mention the citation?
k) Editorial: You might think this hand-wave is ok, but to me it's usually indicative of a tell and a smell.
l) Finally, do understand the nature of academia and null research (which has been mentioned on HN). In short, there is a (career / financial) incentive to find something novel (read: worth publishing). You advance your career by doing not-null research.
Again, I'm not suggesting anything nefarious per se. But this study is getting A LOT of attention. All things considered, more than it objectively deserves.
__Again: I'm not suggesting AI is not having an impact. That would be foolish.__
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
You really do have to account for why this is mainly happening in industries that are adopting AI, why it's almost exclusively impacting entry-level positions (with senior positions steady or growing), and why controlling for broad economic conditions failed to correct this. I doubt very much that these three Stanford professors would be blindsided by the concept of rates and tarriffs.
The jobs are going to India
Having to work with ESL contractors from firms like Cognizant or HCL is true pain. Normally it would be like 3-4 US employees working on something and then its like 20-30 ESL outsourced people working on something. The quality is so poor though its not worth it.
My current org nuked their contract w HCL after 2 years because how shitty they are and now everything is back onshore. Millions wasted lol. Corporations are so silly sometimes.
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
The jobs are going to India
They will come back (eventually). Having to work with ESL contractors from firms like Cognizant or HCL is true pain. Normally it would be like 3-4 US employees working on something and then its like 20-30 ESL outsourced people working on something. The quality is so poor though its not worth it. My current org nuked their contract w HCL after 2 years because how shitty they are and now everything is back onshore. Mil…
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it have to? Stack enough "it's 5% better" on top of each other and the exponent will crush you.
AI training costs are increasing around 3x annually across each of the last 8 years to achieve its performance improvements. Last year, spending across all labs was $150bn. Keeping the 3x trend means that, to keep pace with current advances, costs should rise to $450bn in 2025, $900bn in 2026, $2.7tn in 2027, $8.1tn in 2028, $25tn in 2028, and $75tn in 2029 and $225tn in 2030. For reference, the GDP of the world is a…
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
The jobs are going to India
American workers are truly under attack from all sides. H1B. Outsourcing. What's left? The blue collar manufacturing is mostly gone. White collar work well on its way out. Why is our own government (by the people for the people) actively assisting in destroying American's ability to get jobs (H1B)? Especially in these conditions. I'm no racist or idiot but it's unacceptable. I didn't expect the gov to actively be con…
Nearly half the unicorns in the country were found by foreigners living in the country. https://gfmag.com/capital-raising-corporate-finance/us-unico...
The biggest problem right now is that there is no distinction between companies replacing Americans labor with cheap labor and entrepreneurial talent that creates jobs. Everyone is on the same visa.
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#288The accounting note is not true in the traditional sense. The field in the US is just getting offshored to India/PH/Eastern Europe for better or for worse. There is even a big push to lower the educational requirements to attain licensure in the US (Big 4 partners want more bodies and are destroying the pipeline for US students). Audit quality will continue to suffer and public filers will issue bunk financials if th…
Do you have any evidence of this because the rationale seems like a coping strategy or conspiracy theory how it's being suppositioned.
IT help was outsourced to India years ago. I expect them to be replaced with AI the minute their government stops handing the firm big contracts because I’ve never spoken to anyone from that group who was actually better than a chat bot.
Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#289Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
AI training costs are increasing around 3x annually across each of the last 8 years to achieve its performance improvements. Last year, spending across all labs was $150bn. Keeping the 3x trend means that, to keep pace with current advances, costs should rise to $450bn in 2025, $900bn in 2026, $2.7tn in 2027, $8.1tn in 2028, $25tn in 2028, and $75tn in 2029 and $225tn in 2030. For reference, the GDP of the world is a…
The current trained models are already pretty good enough for many things.