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A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

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Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#91

Post by skybrian »

dev_l1x_be wrote: post #79
tpurves wrote: post #75

Arbitraging fraud has always been PayPal's game. For the mass market of small-scale sellers there's a threshold, whre the cost of onboarding, verifying, underwriting and eating fraud exposure is greater than the revenues you could ever expect to make from them at their low volume. So these segments went un-served, same with many other segments of transactions or transactors. PayPal's model has always been to accept a…

Ebay and Paypal are full of scam. Simply it is thei best interest to keep this up because it generates revenue for them.

That's a simplistic way of understanding "best interest."

The optimal amount of fraud is neither zero nor "let it all through." Their "best interest" is a balance between allowing legit transactions to get through and blocking enough fraudulent ones that fraud doesn't become too common.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#93

Post by bratwurst3000 »

pbmonster wrote: post #66
fweimer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Merchants probably want to rely on another party to maintain their integration, but there is no real need for another centralized service similar to Paypal. (The U.S. really is an outlier among developed nations in that its giro system is not widely used, and many residents would no…

> The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Not at all, not even close! In most cases, that's wrong even today. Want to sell something online? A book you wrote, a game you made? There's no way for people to pay you via giro and automatically receiving the good on the page where the payment process was initiated. Giro is not…

? IBAN transactions are instant and free.

All three of my banking apps offer adresse books.

why couldnt i sent money back? I see the sender and the IBAN

I can even in some cases cancell payments

where are you at?

me france germany italy and switzerland.

Are you from the states or canada? The parent talked about europe.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#94

Post by korhojoa »

pbmonster wrote: post #66
fweimer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Merchants probably want to rely on another party to maintain their integration, but there is no real need for another centralized service similar to Paypal. (The U.S. really is an outlier among developed nations in that its giro system is not widely used, and many residents would no…

> The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Not at all, not even close! In most cases, that's wrong even today. Want to sell something online? A book you wrote, a game you made? There's no way for people to pay you via giro and automatically receiving the good on the page where the payment process was initiated. Giro is not…

I'm trying to think of any bank that I've used that would not have "address book"-like functionality, and I can't think of one. All of them have this, and have had the feature for as long as I've used their online banking. Perhaps the banks you're used to aren't very modern?

SEPA transfers are (at least mine have been) max. 1h until the transfer is complete (some limit this to "banking hours"). Instantaneous transfer is common.

It seems to me like there is great variety depending on what bank you use.

API's are common, and even the same between banks now with PSD2.

Tbh, a banking barcode (or EPC QR if you prefer) displayed on the seller's webpage with unique reference + reading it with your phone and making the payment is that internet payment method via giro. The webshop uses PSD2 open banking to get notified of new transactions and knows when it is transferred.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#96

Post by raincole »

dcow wrote: post #65
raincole wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I had always thought these AML/KYC stuff were just governments/people in power expanding their arms into normal people's lives. I still think they mostly are, but after learning how much fraud is happening, I'm not sure what a better solution would look like.

Strong digital credentialing—something the web has been surprisingly allergic to.

Uh... it existed in South Korea at some point. And what happened next was exactly what everyone predicted: mass privacy data breach.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#98

Post by sgbeal »

junto wrote: post #92

Serious (aside) question. If you have MFA turned on then you’re safe enough right? I don’t use my account very much but sometimes it’s useful.

> If you have MFA turned on then you’re safe enough right?

Many of these payments (or would-be payments) are automated, so MFA doesn't play a role. i had automated payments get blocked yesterday for the first time ever and thought it was just my problem until seeing this thread.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#99

Post by tpm »

cubefox wrote: post #33
BoredPositron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like their 5th attempt and the naming gets worse every time.

Wero seems to be a more European solution, while previous attempts like GiroPay were national.

Looking at the Wero page, it's not very European if 4 countries are listed. I have never heard of it here in Slovakia, and none of our banks are listed, although some belong to the groups that are there. This will be a long process if it really wants to be European.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#100

Post by tchalla »

the_duke wrote: post #69
tchalla wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German banks (and in general businesses) are amazing. They won't do anything until legally required to do so and even then will drag their feet. There has been instant bank transfers (transfers in 10 seconds) available for a while - launched in November 2017. German banks kept charging 1.5€ for this instant transfer or some didn't have them available at all. They didn't build any of these systems and yet this was the…

The resistance against instant payments mostly has to do with technicalities around bank balance sheets and inter-bank settlement systems. It's a bit complex for a comment, but the TLDR is: * funds in transit (called "positive float") are held in the banks account, and can be used by the bank to earn interest * liquidity management - there are a bunch of considerations here, but the longer settlement periods enable b…

This comment is not towards you but there's always an excuse with the big German banks.

For example, during Covid when interest rates where negative - some major German banks like Commerzbank charged interest from customers when their balance exceeded an amount like 50000€. Now that the interest rates have gone up - they are not even close to passing on those high interest rates. The same Commerzbank now asks for 50000€ in assets otherwise they charge a 4.90€ subscription charge from their customers.

So yeah there might be technicalities but nothing stops those technicalities being addressed until the law does.

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