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A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

nordbayern.de

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Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#81

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

dcow wrote: post #65
raincole wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I had always thought these AML/KYC stuff were just governments/people in power expanding their arms into normal people's lives. I still think they mostly are, but after learning how much fraud is happening, I'm not sure what a better solution would look like.

Strong digital credentialing—something the web has been surprisingly allergic to.

Because we've seen that as soon as it exists, it quickly becomes required for ridiculous things that shouldn't require any kind of authentication, either by data-hungry companies that want to better exploit their users, or by control-hungry governments.

Until that is solved, I'd argue that the benefits are not worth the costs.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#82

Post by overdrive110 »

tnolet wrote: post #67
throw7 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venmos's security is also A++. I made an account, sent some money, then my account was immediately flagged and closed for fraud. Nice.

Off topic: Venmo does not exist (?) in Europe land. What’s its appeal compared to PayPal or regular credit cards or even debit?

The Nordic countries all have bank-backed apps for instant transfers from a checking account indexed by phone numbers. It basically replaces every peer to peer transaction that would be cash in other countries (paying back a friend, buying something at a flea market, chipping in for a gift at the office...)

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#83

Post by hk__2 »

altairprime wrote: post #53
tietjens wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree. At the time this was the only English link I found. The BBC is much better, and it's a European issue. I cannot edit the link or title.

You can email the mods and ask them to do so. Footer contact link and mention “FP #x” somewhere in the subject.

What’s "FP" for?

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#84

Post by LunaSea »

jacquesm wrote: post #78
rcbdev wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually stop and consider the culture and ethos surrounding the advent and spreading of the Internet, it's not surprising at all.

And if you stop and consider how corporations have been abusing that sort of thing every chance they got it is even less surprising.

Can't wait for them to abuse a non-anonymized internet.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#85

Post by jacquesm »

LunaSea wrote: post #84
jacquesm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you stop and consider how corporations have been abusing that sort of thing every chance they got it is even less surprising.

Can't wait for them to abuse a non-anonymized internet.

I think I'll pass on that one. It is bad enough as it is.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#86

Post by nicce »

bgnn wrote: post #62
nicce wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There where already plenty of alternatives once online shopping/payments became a thing. Let’s say direct bank transfers are not counted. What alternatives are not based on Visa/Mastercard on global scale?

Global scale is different indeed. EU scale there are tons of solutions: iDeal (expanding to EU from NL), Klarna, sofort..

Yeah, one could hope even more. E.g. MobilePay in Nordic countries take big fees because (based on my limited observation) most people just put their Visa/Mastercard in there.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#87

Post by raphman »

Terr_ wrote: post #14

In this case I think it's justified [0] to offer an alternate reporting: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj6y42jggdyo > European banks have seen widespread unauthorised direct debits from PayPal accounts, the German Savings Banks Association (DSGV) says. > The German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) says payments worth in the region of 10 billion euros (£8.6bn) have had to be blocked, after PayPal's fraud-checki…

Better link: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-...

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#88

Post by lotsofpulp »

raincole wrote: post #59
hibikir wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked for PayPal, but I did for a competitor. Dealing with fraud is a red queen game: The fraudsters can keep trying until they find what gaps are there in your system, and will sometimes communicate with each other: Part of our defense system involved infiltrating some of those spaces and seeing the guides that were being sold to try to commit fraud in our platform. Meanwhile you will still have a false pos…

Yeah. I had always thought these AML/KYC stuff were just governments/people in power expanding their arms into normal people's lives. I still think they mostly are, but after learning how much fraud is happening, I'm not sure what a better solution would look like.

>I'm not sure what a better solution would look like

Federal government provided electronic money accounts and transfer systems, along with federal government provided identity verification APIs, where the fraud requires defrauding the government. Basically, a government utility. They do it with passports, why not with digital travel?

Obviously, this has to go hand in hand with constitutional inalienable rights to protect people's access to electronic money accounts and identity verification.

Re: A failure of security systems at PayPal is causing concern for German banks

#89

Post by pantalaimon »

pbmonster wrote: post #66
fweimer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Merchants probably want to rely on another party to maintain their integration, but there is no real need for another centralized service similar to Paypal. (The U.S. really is an outlier among developed nations in that its giro system is not widely used, and many residents would no…

> The existing giro system is the real Paypal competitor. Most Europeans had access to Paypal-style money transfers before they had email. Not at all, not even close! In most cases, that's wrong even today. Want to sell something online? A book you wrote, a game you made? There's no way for people to pay you via giro and automatically receiving the good on the page where the payment process was initiated. Giro is not…

> Giro is not instant, and almost no bank will offer an API that signals that a specific customer has transferred funds successfully.

And because of that we have leeches like Sofortüberweisung. They basically proxy the web interface of your bank and you'll give them full access to your account, so they do the transaction for you by scraping your banks web interface (and your transaction history) and report success to the vendor.

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