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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#271

Post by Animats »

jedberg wrote: post #200
bananalychee wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia lists two fatal crashes involving Tesla FSD and one involving Waymo.

They key difference is that the Teslas killed their passengers, the Waymo hit someone outside the car (and it wasn't the Waymo's fault, it was hit by another car).

Yes. [1] That incident got considerable publicity in the San Francisco media. But not because of the Waymo.[2][3]

Someone was driving a Tesla on I-280 into SF. They'd previously been involved in a hit-and-run accident on the freeway. They exited I-280 at the 6th St. off ramp, which is a long straightaway. They entered surface streets at 98 MPH in a 25 MPH zone, ran through a red light, and reached the next intersection, where traffic was stopped at a red light. The Tesla Model Y plowed into a lane of stopped cars, killing one person and one dog, injuring seven others, and demolishing at least six vehicles. One of the vehicles waiting was a Waymo, which had no one on board at the time.

The driver of the Tesla claims their brakes failed. "Police on Monday booked Zheng on one count of felony vehicular manslaughter, reckless driving causing injury, felony vandalism and speeding."[2]

[1] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/waymo-multi-car-wr...

[2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/crash-tesla-waymo-inj...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULalTHBQ3rI&

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#272

Post by hardwaregeek »

dmicah wrote: post #40
hardwaregeek wrote: post #13

I’m curious if autonomous cars will become targets for aggressive drivers. Like a driver isn’t going to be as scared cutting off a Waymo or tailgating one because the AI isn’t gonna get road rage or honk like hell. In some places I could see the Waymo’s getting severely bullied if that’s the case.

But why would you tailgate a driverless car? I think usually people tailgate to intimidate the person ahead of them to drive faster.

Because there’s still someone in the car, they just have no way to defend themselves. You can tailgate and honk at them to your heart’s content. Well at least until they call the police but that’s pretty far. And there are other forms of aggression that do accomplish something. If you cut a Waymo off or beat it to merge, you get ahead of it. In some locales I could see a whole series of cars merging ahead of a Waymo if people are aggressive enough.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#273

Post by kenhwang »

darth_avocado wrote: post #39
phkahler wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> could you imagine the audacity of actually not driving into an intersection when the light is yellow and you know you're going to block the crossing traffic? I wonder how many Waymos following the rules would be needed to reduce gridlock.

Waymo in SF pretty much drives like a human, and that includes doing human things like cutting lanes, stopping wherever it feels like, driving in the bus lane etc. I think it’ll be fine in NYC

Waymo in LA also drives pretty much like a human here would, which includes: not yielding for pedestrian-only crosswalks, running red lights, driving in the oncoming traffic/suicide/bike lane, occupying two lanes, blocking entrances/driveways/intersections, and stopping/parking in no-stop/parking curbs.

They're only really phenomenal at not hitting things; they really aren't good/courteous/predictable drivers under most conventional definitions.

Still, I think rollout in NYC will be fine. NYC generally drives slower and much less aggressively than LA, and slower gives the Waymo plenty of reaction time to not hit things.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#274

Post by meagher »

marcosdumay wrote: post #256
meagher wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not sure why you think waymo would fight against that If you were to pedestrianize 10% of Manhattan (or for example all of Broadway, which is being considered), then that’s less area for Waymo to operate and make money. To be clear, this is likely more of a long term issue.

They will probably gain way more by the removal of parking lots that comes with it than by losing rides to pedestrian traffic or bikes.

NYC doesn’t have a lot of surface parking lots.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#275

Post by guywithahat »

meagher wrote: post #186
Workaccount2 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, NYC is actually the safest city in the country for pedestrians and bicyclists.[1] [1] https://www.wagnerreese.com/most-dangerous-cities-cyclists-p...

I’d believe it, but the fact that any pedestrians/bikers are killed/injured by cars in NYC is unacceptable.

I mean if we required a license to own a bike in NYC we could see a significant reduction in injuries/deaths, same for pedestrians. Cars are already heavily regulated and likely aren't the underlying issue.

There are many ways to interpret data, but one often comes to the conclusion that pedestrians and bikers are the root cause of most accidents.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#276

Post by esalman »

kenhwang wrote: post #273
darth_avocado wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo in SF pretty much drives like a human, and that includes doing human things like cutting lanes, stopping wherever it feels like, driving in the bus lane etc. I think it’ll be fine in NYC

Waymo in LA also drives pretty much like a human here would, which includes: not yielding for pedestrian-only crosswalks, running red lights, driving in the oncoming traffic/suicide/bike lane, occupying two lanes, blocking entrances/driveways/intersections, and stopping/parking in no-stop/parking curbs. They're only really phenomenal at not hitting things; they really aren't good/courteous/predictable drivers under m…

I can attest to that. I live in Orange county and occasionally see Waymos when I go to LA, and they'll do things like merging with very little gap or merging in the middle of interactions.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#277

Post by renewiltord »

joecool1029 wrote: post #168
0_____0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Massachusetts, USA, red light cameras were illegal until very recently, due to a 70s era law specifying that a live policeman had to issue a citation for something like that. From well before traffic cameras were common.

We had a pilot program in NJ for them, they were universally hated. People would slam brakes on and be hanging over the edge into intersection and throw their car into reverse panicking to avoid the ticket, ended up causing a ton of new accidents so the program was never continued. In newark people shot at the cameras: https://www.nj.com/news/2012/08/shoot_out_the_red_lights_2_t...

[flagged]

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#278

Post by thorncorona »

freeone3000 wrote: post #102
dgs_sgd wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like that just as much as the next guy but the problem of public transport cannot be addressed until you first address the problem of anti social behavior on public transport.

That’s just being around people. We gotta live together as people; the idea that we can atomize ourselves away from the society we live in is more disastrous to the shared social fabric than any amount of people listening to music without headphones.

That isn’t what they meant, and you know it.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#279

Post by HiroshiSan »

gibolt wrote: post #267
afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

Yeah the mindset is essentially drive to spec in the test and then skirting the law from then on.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#280

Post by kelnos »

tehjoker wrote: post #133
oceanplexian wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try driving anywhere in the world that's not Western Europe or The USA and you'll quickly see how advanced even our worst cities are when it comes to traffic. Last time I was in China drivers simply go through four way intersections at top speed from all directions simultaneously. If you are a pedestrian I hope you're good at frogger because there is a 0% chance anyone will stop for you. I really wonder how self driv…

It is kinda funny watching people complain here after visiting almost anywhere in Asia. Can't speak for Japan or Korea though.

I've never been to SK, but in Japan things are -- unsurprisingly, as one might guess -- very orderly. For the most part (in cities at least) you don't jaywalk, even when there are no cars on the road.
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