Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

tampabay28.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 186 posts

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#91

Post by qualeed »

judge2020 wrote: post #86
qualeed wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I guess I can kind of understand that. It's just not something I've experienced. I've never felt that there was a "gap" that needed to be filled. Especially not by a group that can also tell me that my paint has to be a certain color or whatever.

Things like maintaining a community’s cohesiveness (eg via restricting exterior cosmetic changes, requiring lawn maintenance, etc) are in the HOA contract in an effort to maintain/increase the community’s home values over time. And, of course, people can choose not to buy a home in a community like this if they don’t agree to the provisions of the HOA. Even before the 2021 surge in home values, homes on city streets…

>Things like maintaining a community’s cohesiveness [...] maintain/increase the community’s home values over time.

I've heard the arguments in favor of them before, I just don't find them convincing.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#92

Post by immibis »

wat10000 wrote: post #34
tallanvor wrote: post #26

The problem you'll run into is when the HOAs are responsible for common areas or shared infrastructure. In some places the HOAs are responsible for the roads and there may be a common pool, gym, or other amenities. You'd be better off preventing HOAs from doing petty things like requiring homes to be painted certain colors and requiring them to have their books audited yearly to ensure there's no fraud or abuse going…

We used to have local governments provide that sort of thing (and still do to an extent). One reason for the prevalence of HOAs is that they have a much easier time keeping out the riffraff with uncomfortably dark skin, but maybe people will just have to put up with them.

That can now be done at the state level.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#93

Post by wolrah »

squigz wrote: post #21
reactordev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are usually rentals here in Florida. HOAs are a real problem here due to the legal protection they have. They can literally take your house because your mailbox is blue.

> They can literally take your house because your mailbox is blue. This is hard to believe. Have you got a source?

It's a slightly longer process but it basically comes down to:

1. HOA has stupid rule about mailbox 2. Homeowner is found to be in violation of the rule and fined. 3. Homeowner does not pay fines 4. HOA places lien on house and is eventually able to force a sale to pay the fine.

It has to escalate to get there, but it is possible.

Also I can state from personal experience with two different HOAs on two different sides of the state of Ohio that they are exactly that petty.

The first one harassed my grandparents and threatened them with fines over having the "wrong" mailbox despite my grandparents literally being the first owners of the home and the mailbox they had having been put up by the developer who built the neighborhood and still controlled the HOA at the time (if you're not familiar with HOAs, in new developments it's common for the developer to have a controlling vote until a certain percentage of lots have been sold which allows them to exercise tighter control over the way the neighborhood appears to potential buyers). If I recall correctly the "right" mailbox was also one that was built by some random local shop that was connected to the developers so you couldn't just go buy one retail.

The second one was a decade later when I was renting a room from a friend, he had one of the common "Step 2" brand plastic mailboxes which had been installed for years and was also common around the neighborhood. Apparently it wasn't the right color, it was tan and only the black and green variants were allowed.

I don't mind the concept of a HOA for maintaining shared areas and such. The one in the second case actually was responsible for all yard maintenance in the neighborhood which was nice (except that their vendor loved to show up at 6 AM on a Saturday to wake us all up with the sound of two-stroke engines) and that was fine. The problem is that they have too much power over individuals' property. Outside of special cases like historical properties there is no excuse for HOAs to care about what color I paint my front door, what brand of mailbox I use, what type of shingles I install, if I have a satellite dish, etc. If it does not objectively affect others who are not on my property the HOA should keep its nose out of it.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#94

Post by immibis »

wasjosh wrote: post #54
afavour wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The logical answer here is to limit the things HOAs can and cannot do rather than ban them outright. But that doesn't make for a good headline.

Or how about if you don't want to join an HOA.... you don't join an HOA?

Except it's currently not optional because it comes with the house and it's with almost every house.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#95

Post by staticman2 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #76
impendia wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that legal?! I would have thought your lawyer would be salivating at the prospect of raking your HOA over the coals. Or at least of mailing a nastygram with all sorts of colorful threats. I suppose not?

It is most decidedly not legal, but they had the largest condo law firm in the Chicago area on retainer who made the statement they wouldn't provide it. (Literally the lawyer I was recommended to use until it turned out... it was theirs.) Their lawyer's own website basically said the HOA can't hide stuff like this from owners. Which is to say if I had had the time and money for a protracted court drama, I do think a…

There's an agency problem here.

The building could have been perfectly safe but the lawyer wants to "win" so says "fuck you we won't provide the report". The lawyer has no stake in the health of the project, if they are a litigator they just care about "winning".

Alternatively the building could have been about to collapse but the lawyer wants to "win" and doesn't live there so says "fuck you we won't provide it." Same result, different safety profile.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#96

Post by LargeWu »

wasjosh wrote: post #54
afavour wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The logical answer here is to limit the things HOAs can and cannot do rather than ban them outright. But that doesn't make for a good headline.

Or how about if you don't want to join an HOA.... you don't join an HOA?

If the house is covered by an HOA, it's typically not optional.

And in some areas it's very difficult to find housing not part of an HOA. I think somebody mentioned elsewhere in this thread that all new housing in Phoenix requires an HOA.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#97

Post by dgrin91 »

RandomBacon wrote: post #85
firesteelrain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What property owners is my point? Many are long gone and the (now) $175 a quarter we charge goes towards the common amenities. What would happen is we would have to surrender those funds to the State. So this would lead to a huge windfall for the State. States have rules for what happens when a HOA dissolves. That means the money goes right to the State including the sale of the common property.

Who are you charging $175?

I think what GP is saying is that if I was a homeowner for 30 years, paid HOA fees all those years, then last year sold to someone else, who gets the HOA reimbursement then? I paid thousands over years and would presumably get nothing, while some other guy who just moved in all of a sudden gets a big check? That seems unfair.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#98

Post by olddustytrail »

next_xibalba wrote: post #7
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #4

The problem is always with the extremes. On one side, you have someone creating a car junkyard in his frontyard with a car tire bonfire behind his house and on the other, you have a random karen neigbor measuring your lawn greenness and soil humidity to see if you're not watering the lawn enough and fine your for that. Take the power from a few powertrippers and make it more democratic and you solve both issues... tu…

I lived next to a guy who would do maintenance and repair on his motorcycle which had “pipes” until nearly midnight. I would’ve killed for an HOA back then.

Why not kill the guy with the motorbike and cut out the middleman?

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#99

Post by Ekaros »

dgrin91 wrote: post #97
RandomBacon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you charging $175?

I think what GP is saying is that if I was a homeowner for 30 years, paid HOA fees all those years, then last year sold to someone else, who gets the HOA reimbursement then? I paid thousands over years and would presumably get nothing, while some other guy who just moved in all of a sudden gets a big check? That seems unfair.

Well any funds in HOA is part of the property. Could have reported it when selling and increase price correspondingly or at least some fraction.

Re: Florida lawmaker floats ban on HOAs amid growing backlash

#100

Post by javier_e06 »

RandomBacon wrote: post #18
mschuster91 wrote: post #5

> In Riverview, HOA disputes escalated into arrests and foreclosure threats. One homeowner was jailed for a week over brown grass, while another faced a lien and thousands in legal fees tied to her house paint. What, excuse me, the hell ? I thought "debtor's prison" was outlawed centuries ago?

IIRC, they missed their court appearance and a bench warrant was issued.

VISA cannot sue me for not paying my cc. It can ruin my credit history but it cannot sue me. Wells Fargo cannot sue me for missing mortgage payments, It may repo the house but not sue me. If HOA's can sue a home owner for breach of contract, who would like to live with that hanging over their heads.
Post reply on HN