In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk • Hacker News Board

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#41

Post by prodigal_erik » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 9:28 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #40

CamperBob2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right. Maybe working 50+ hours a week is always a net negative. Maybe a sane, family-friendly work environment will, in fact, maximize both the happiness and well-being of individual contributors and the productivity of the organization as a whole. But you know what? Nobody told the kids in the garage down the street. You know... the ones who are working 60+ hours a week, and who are about to kick your com…

> the ones who are working 60+ hours a week, and who are about to kick your company's ass, because there's no place on Earth they'd rather be than in that garage. Because they're 20 years old, and they'll do that only for a limited time anyway because even the energy from youth won't protect them from burnout. This is nice, heart-warming story we like to believe, but this is anecdote. In general , people work efficie…

Eight hours per day came out of studies of rote assembly line labor. Has there been evidence that's also the optimum for a creative desk job?

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#42

Post by eluos » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 10:18 PM UTC

spatten wrote: post #21

hastur wrote: post #5

The "Occupy Mars" t-shirt is awesome! :D

I agree. Anyone know if there's anywhere I can order one? A quick google search turns up a much lamer version[1]. [1]: http://www.cafepress.ca/+occupy_mars_34_sleeve_tshirt_dark,6...

Will someone please find out where we can get that Occupy Mars T-Shirt?!!!

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#43

Post by marvin » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 10:36 PM UTC

prodigal_erik wrote: post #41

wazoox wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ones who are working 60+ hours a week, and who are about to kick your company's ass, because there's no place on Earth they'd rather be than in that garage. Because they're 20 years old, and they'll do that only for a limited time anyway because even the energy from youth won't protect them from burnout. This is nice, heart-warming story we like to believe, but this is anecdote. In general , people work efficie…

Eight hours per day came out of studies of rote assembly line labor. Has there been evidence that's also the optimum for a creative desk job?

I don't think this has been established. But regardless, wazoox is saying that even eight hours a day (of real, focused work that doesn't involve checking Hacker News or Facebook all the time) is too much for most people over a long period of time.

It's all anecdotal evidence - I guess you could pull off a bit more if your job is your life. I've never met anyone who meets this criterion, but maybe someone else has.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#44

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 08, 2012, 11:27 PM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #40

CamperBob2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right. Maybe working 50+ hours a week is always a net negative. Maybe a sane, family-friendly work environment will, in fact, maximize both the happiness and well-being of individual contributors and the productivity of the organization as a whole. But you know what? Nobody told the kids in the garage down the street. You know... the ones who are working 60+ hours a week, and who are about to kick your com…

> the ones who are working 60+ hours a week, and who are about to kick your company's ass, because there's no place on Earth they'd rather be than in that garage. Because they're 20 years old, and they'll do that only for a limited time anyway because even the energy from youth won't protect them from burnout. This is nice, heart-warming story we like to believe, but this is anecdote. In general , people work efficie…

[deleted]

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#45

Post by marcamillion » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 2:04 AM UTC

hinathan wrote: post #6

It was a difficult thing that was made more difficult by one of our investors who was just an absolute bastard, nobody should ever take money from them. Anybody know whom he's referring to? Pretty harsh.

Would love to know too.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#46

Post by dave1619 » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 2:52 AM UTC

guimarin wrote: post #33

I really enjoy this article and hope tesla succeeds, but I am always turned off by plug-in EVs. Say for example, he does achieve 30 minutes charging for 3 hours driving. And say I drive from SF to LA. after about 3 hours, there is this one in n out station, that everyone stops at, are we going to have 20 superchargers at that station? in off hours of the day, those will not all be utilized, thus lose money. It seems…

You'll probably be able to reserve the SuperCharger from your phone while you're driving, or even from your Tesla dash. That way, when you arrive, you're all ready to charge. If when you try to reserve a charging space from your phone, there aren't any spots... I guess you'll have to reserve the next available time then... unless they do something creative.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#47

Post by joelrunyon » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 4:28 AM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #28

shazow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that people who expect and look forward to working +50 hours/week would perform much better than people who are guilted into it. Also sounds like they're well compensated for it. I liked his "special forces" analogy.

People who want to be pilots love flying. Nonetheless they're not allowed to fly more than a number of hours, because passion, motivation and whatever you want won't prevent you from messing up when you're tired. Amphetamines were invented for the military and particularly the special ops, mind you. As you know they come with their problems, too. So please stop bullshitting yourself. As much as I like and respect Elo…

I think his "special forces" analogy is quite good.

Sure, most people won't join the military.

Sure, out of those that do, most won't be joining the special forces.

Sure, those that do join the special forces know it's "above and beyond", an added level of stress and quite difficult to do for 40+ years, but they do it anyways. Why? Probably because they're compelled by the greater mission and they're willing to do it in spite of the tradeoffs. Oh, and they're the best of the best, so they're probably okay with trading some rest for the work they're putting in.

Yes, most people won't hold up under those conditions, but special forces recruiters aren't looking for "most people". I suspect Musk isn't either.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#48

Post by mahyarm » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 4:29 AM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #30

I must say, I've been on the wall about the Model S, being a hard-core auto enthusiast and really loving my gears (e.g. I only drive stick shift). But this interview, the revelation that Elon Musk is out there personally inspecting each and every car (well, more or less), that the guy designing my cars is even more of an anal-retentive OC-freak than I am who won't laugh and scoff at me like the guy at the Audi dealer…

You must see the model s in person. It's so well designed, I wish you could buy one for $30k new as a hybrid version. Just get rid of the front trunk.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#49

Post by joelrunyon » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 4:30 AM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #28

shazow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that people who expect and look forward to working +50 hours/week would perform much better than people who are guilted into it. Also sounds like they're well compensated for it. I liked his "special forces" analogy.

People who want to be pilots love flying. Nonetheless they're not allowed to fly more than a number of hours, because passion, motivation and whatever you want won't prevent you from messing up when you're tired. Amphetamines were invented for the military and particularly the special ops, mind you. As you know they come with their problems, too. So please stop bullshitting yourself. As much as I like and respect Elo…

Also, while you may think 40 hour work weeks are the optimal time, you'll have to admit it's a completely arbitrary number.

Elon himself, first and foremost, is proving your assertion wrong by easily working more, while simultaneously running 2 (I would suggest) of the most important emerging companies around. Sure, other aspects of his life may suffer, but he's willing to make that tradeoff.

Don't try to project your personal limitations onto someone else or create a population generality from a personal anecdote.

Re: In deep with Tesla CEO Elon Musk

#50

Post by mahyarm » Sun, Sep 09, 2012, 4:33 AM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #28

shazow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that people who expect and look forward to working +50 hours/week would perform much better than people who are guilted into it. Also sounds like they're well compensated for it. I liked his "special forces" analogy.

People who want to be pilots love flying. Nonetheless they're not allowed to fly more than a number of hours, because passion, motivation and whatever you want won't prevent you from messing up when you're tired. Amphetamines were invented for the military and particularly the special ops, mind you. As you know they come with their problems, too. So please stop bullshitting yourself. As much as I like and respect Elo…

I would be willing to work ~50/60 hours a week if the company accommodated me by helping me with my other goals, such as maid & laundry service, the kind of physical training I would like that I could do during work hours, a cook who would cook my weight loss diet to my specifications and somebody who would buy things on a list for me from target or wherever. That saves me more than the 10/20 hours extra they ask from me. Big clincher is to my specifications, which a lot of places cannot/wont do.