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LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

danfabulich.medium.com

21–30 of 163 posts

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#21
post #10
post #3

I tried using the article suggested randomness and inevitability to come up with completely new joke, this is what I came up with, tell me how'd I do (no llm involved): - I asked Jimmy to tell me a random number - Yeah? And what did he tell you? - He told me one

Why is that in English speaking world a joke is almost always a pun?

It could also be some bias on what we read or hear around us. But I agree that it's unsettling because in French we almost never make puns as "jokes." French puns have always a component of "higher literacy" that is not what we want in a joke.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#22

I dunno, man. I think this one is kinda funny. "You ever notice how self-checkout machines are just training us to be employees? Like, I don’t remember applying to work at Walmart. I’m scanning groceries, bagging stuff, looking around like, do I also get dental? The machine yells 'Unexpected item in bagging area'—yeah, it’s my pride." -GPT5

See that's just stolen, straight up. I've heard at least three comedians make that joke.

(I, of course, am joking about joke theft, but it is a riff on an existing joke)

I got this one a minute ago in response to this post:

> A man walks into a library, and asks the librarian if they have any books on paranoia.

> The librarian leans over and whispers in his ear "They're right behind you"

I thought that was pretty stellar, compared to what you'd get even a year ago.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#23
Last time this came up, I riffed on the difference between LLMs and Markov chains: didn't actually have a machine write a joke, but made one where the punchline was very much Markov chain style rather than LLM style. The thing is, LLMs will try to have broader context around a word completion, where the simple Markov chain can 'correctly' complete a word, but in such a way that your brain trips over itself and goes splat, having to re-evaluate the whole thing in an absurd way. That's the 'surprise', and also why joke-writers are interested in not only a punch-line but also the punch WORD, and the later it strikes, the better.

"An LLM, a Markov chain, and GPT-4 walk into a bar. The bartender says "We don't serve your kind here." GPT-4 leaves. The LLM stays to debate ethics. The Markov chain orders a coup."

It's a joke because a dictator can certainly order a coup, but the joke's set up that these machines are being scorned and disrespected and treated as the farthest thing from a dictator with the power to order a coup, but up to the last word, all the context demands that the word be something placating and in line with things as they're presented, and then boom, surprise which implies the context is completely different from what was presented. LLMs will tend to stick to what's presented if their ability to contextualize can encompass it.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#24
post #10
post #3

I tried using the article suggested randomness and inevitability to come up with completely new joke, this is what I came up with, tell me how'd I do (no llm involved): - I asked Jimmy to tell me a random number - Yeah? And what did he tell you? - He told me one

Why is that in English speaking world a joke is almost always a pun?

In terms of forums, i think pun jokes work well in text, where most other types of jokes depend a lot more on delivery.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#25

I dunno, man. I think this one is kinda funny. "You ever notice how self-checkout machines are just training us to be employees? Like, I don’t remember applying to work at Walmart. I’m scanning groceries, bagging stuff, looking around like, do I also get dental? The machine yells 'Unexpected item in bagging area'—yeah, it’s my pride." -GPT5

See that's just stolen, straight up. I've heard at least three comedians make that joke. (I, of course, am joking about joke theft, but it is a riff on an existing joke) I got this one a minute ago in response to this post: > A man walks into a library, and asks the librarian if they have any books on paranoia. > The librarian leans over and whispers in his ear "They're right behind you" I thought that was pretty ste…

[dead]

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#26

I dunno, man. I think this one is kinda funny. "You ever notice how self-checkout machines are just training us to be employees? Like, I don’t remember applying to work at Walmart. I’m scanning groceries, bagging stuff, looking around like, do I also get dental? The machine yells 'Unexpected item in bagging area'—yeah, it’s my pride." -GPT5

See that's just stolen, straight up. I've heard at least three comedians make that joke. (I, of course, am joking about joke theft, but it is a riff on an existing joke) I got this one a minute ago in response to this post: > A man walks into a library, and asks the librarian if they have any books on paranoia. > The librarian leans over and whispers in his ear "They're right behind you" I thought that was pretty ste…

Initially impressed. But Googling for that shows a lot of hits.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#27

This sounds really convincing but I'm not sure it's actually correct. The author is conflating the surprise of punchlines with their likelihood. To put it another way, ask a professional comedian to complete a joke with a punchline. It's very likely that they'll give you a funny surprising answer. I think the real explanation is that good jokes are actually extremely difficult. I have young children (4 and 6). Even 6…

Yeah. To me it seems very intuitive that humor is one of those emergent capabilities that just falls out of models getting more generally intelligent. Anecdotally this has been proven true so far for me. Gemini 2.5 has made me laugh several times at this point, and did so when it was intending to be funny (old models were only funny unintentionally).

2.5 is also one of the few models I've found that will 'play along' with jokes set up in the user prompt. I once asked it what IDE modern necromancers were using since I'd been out of the game for a while, and it played it very straight. Other models felt they had to acknowledge the scenario as fanciful, only engaging with it under an explicit veil of make-believe.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#28
post #5

Reminds me of haikus; to be true in nature, they must have a 'cutting word' to severely juxtapose, allowing two otherwise irreconcilable meanings to be bridged. A good haiku must be composed from two directions, not one. But LLMs only move in one...

Are there English-language haikus that demonstrate the effect of "cutting words" instead of just following the meter?

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#30
post #5

Reminds me of haikus; to be true in nature, they must have a 'cutting word' to severely juxtapose, allowing two otherwise irreconcilable meanings to be bridged. A good haiku must be composed from two directions, not one. But LLMs only move in one...

Are there English-language haikus that demonstrate the effect of "cutting words" instead of just following the meter?

No. The form doesn't translate, and English-language haiku is a different form inspired by the Japanese form. Kireji as such are one of the elements that don't translate, though you can of course attempt a poetic structure inspired by kireji.
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