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Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

lrb.co.uk

91–96 of 96 posts

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#91
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Standard of living has been steadily declining in most of Western Europe post 2009: stagnating wages, exploding costs of living, declining public healthcare, pension and welfare funds, with longer waiting queues and scarcity in public services, etc. Actually this is because of how government financing works. Globalization, if anything, gave Europe another 50 years of growth (since this really should have become a c…

>And when everybody is forced to use less, the prices of houses, companies, ... where that wealth is tied up, will fall a lot more than wages will fall. If only house prices would fall. >Globalization, if anything, gave Europe another 50 years of growth (since this really should have become a critical problem in the 1980s) by providing very cheap products and services. My parents could barely afford a color TV or was…

> If only house prices would fall.

Nope, you don't want that. You want a house, and that's not dependent on price, though I understand why everyone feels it is. House availability is a function of supply and demand. That doesn't change with price. However, the actual amount is a function of what people can pay. What will happen is the government will cause a serious reduction in what people can pay, which will drop house prices.

But without building housing or reduction in people (or at least people being willing to live together again) affordability won't change. Only price.

> And which cheap services do you mean?

Services is simply anything you have/acquire that isn't a physical good. Like the internet. Your parents probably also couldn't afford a meal in a restaurant, more than, say, once a month. Or buying food near work (except in a factory restaurant). Maybe you're old enough to remember the necessity of buying food at a farm, or market, with very minimal middlemen, and to buy whatever is available (you know, the seasonal foods), so another (VERY) cheap service you have is supermarkets. Oh and you'd be walking or biking to the farm, so whether it's public transport or a car (or an uber) is another one of those services. You also "get" more and more management (and if you think it's bad at your private sector job, try working at the EU ...), and every company is further expanding it, mostly due to legal requirements, like dedicates psychological support personnel, which you also "get".

The reduction in prices will probably be masked by large inflation. Well, inflation without rising wages, and certainly without rising benefits. That would allow governments to pretend to avoid the completely unconscionable: live within their means ... In other words: governments sold you pension plans when THEY got money. Now that governments don't get money from it anymore ... "we must raise pension age", "we can't do inflation adjustments for benefits", "we can't ...". But of course, they ESPECIALLY can't reduce their own size. That isn't even being discussed.

> Maybe Brussels knows where that overspending is happening?

Wait you're not aware of this? Pensions. Governments promised pensions with total disregard for cost. People in the EU don't work from ages 0 to 20. And they don't work from 59 to 79. (59 due to the many times government has paid for earlier retirement). So working career from 59-20 is 29 years of working. You are dependent on services for 40 years. So the tax necessary to pay for only pensions without constant growth ... is more than half of your wage.

Second is medical expenses. I don't mean treatment. Actually making people better, at a doctor or a hospital is not the big deal. "Long term illness", between quotes because some 10% of the total active workforce has long term illness without being actually disabled (burn-out, psychological difficulties, ...). Great that we allow that, but it needs to be paid for. The problem, of course, is that medical insurance is about 10%, and the money is entirely eaten by people long term ill.

> Younger generations of workers won't be liking this rug-/ladder-pull. And guess who they'll vote for to vent their frustrations that they've been strewed over? Another Austrian painter type of character. It's inevitable.

Sure, and you can bet your firstborn that they will blame "rich Jewish bankers" again, rather than reasoning along the lines of: we, as a group, don't get labor-intensive services ... we also work less and less ... I wonder if there could be a connection. No no no, it's those rich bastards (the ones that match existing racist stereotypes) keeping us down.

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#92
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And when everybody is forced to use less, the prices of houses, companies, ... where that wealth is tied up, will fall a lot more than wages will fall. If only house prices would fall. >Globalization, if anything, gave Europe another 50 years of growth (since this really should have become a critical problem in the 1980s) by providing very cheap products and services. My parents could barely afford a color TV or was…

> If only house prices would fall. Nope, you don't want that. You want a house, and that's not dependent on price, though I understand why everyone feels it is. House availability is a function of supply and demand. That doesn't change with price. However, the actual amount is a function of what people can pay. What will happen is the government will cause a serious reduction in what people can pay, which will drop h…

> So the tax necessary to pay for only pensions without constant growth ... is more than half of your wage.

Sounds like the easiest and fairest fix would be to slash the pensions and benefits of current retirees to match the current real world economic conditions, so that funds can be freed for economic investments in the future generations of people to allow society to evolve and not collapse later.

That's the only fair thing because the current economic conditions are the making of the generation of current retirees who built a system that only serves their generation and wasn't scalable, and it's not the fault of the younger workers of today that their parents and grandparent wrote cheques in their name that they now have to cash, which should be illegal since that would be like me taking a mortgage for a McMansion, and saying to the bank that my 3 year old and his grandkids will pay for it, not me lol.

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#93
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Standard of living has been steadily declining in most of Western Europe post 2009: stagnating wages, exploding costs of living, declining public healthcare, pension and welfare funds, with longer waiting queues and scarcity in public services, etc. Actually this is because of how government financing works. Globalization, if anything, gave Europe another 50 years of growth (since this really should have become a c…

Thank you; you summed it up perfectly. Globalization is the reason many Western countries still have the level of stability they do, since they can export their inflation to the developing world, while maintaining a consistent stream of cheap, abundant goods. No amount of mass-produced goods from the developing world will ever be enough, as long as Western governments are committed to diluting the wealth of their peo…

Retirements and healthcare in Singapore are based on how much each person chooses to invest in it, kinda like in Switzerland.

Meanwhile in most of Europe it's based on socialist principles where everyone receives as much as they need regardless if they didn't contribute, a system which stops working the moment you have more people using it than paying in it, basically a ponzi scheme propped up by governments and voters.

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#94

I read the book referenced - Robert Lightizer's No Trade Is Free: Changing Course, Taking on China, and Helping America's Workers - and it was eye-opening, if somewhat misguided. In it, the author blames China's industrial ascent for America's deindustrialization, the hollowing out of cities like Detroit, the fentanyl crisis, the looming challenge to American power in the Pacific, the intimidation of America's allies…

‘Why does the logic fail when a nation of 1.5b wants to make stuff cheaply and send it to you for affordable prices? How does it hurt you?’

The people in power in the US lose their grip. As the rest of us become subscribers to a better economic model, support for the domestic lords wanes. Why didnt Soviets want to be western? What happened to the soviet union when the western meme penetrated their mindshare?

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should live a more fulfilling life even if it costs luxuries. Less globalization, more localization. Economics should stop having the final say on everything.

Taken to its natural conclusion, your idea is that we should farm our own wheat, thresh it, grind it into flour, make our own bread, and build our own homes. Should we do that? If jobs can't be exported to specialists who can do it at scale in Asia, Europe, etc. then there should be no specialization at all! Your logic demands that everyone fend for themselves primitively, which will lead to a collapse of the abundan…

I think the microcosm of an animal is a useful analogy: every animal has functions that it performs within its body. Survival requires the acquisition of resources (food). However we now have the ability to endow humans with the biochemical machinery of photosynthesis through genetic engineering. This would eliminate the need for most food production and consumption. Yet this seemingly huge biological advantage never evolved. Instead, We continue to develop more complex ways to acquire and use resources. This increasing complexity is exceeding the ability of our brains to manage, even as we struggle to build artificially expanded intelligence. There is an optimal amount of interdependent activity (=trade) that maximizes utility. We have experienced conditions on both sides of this optimum. The first step to recovery is recognizing this optimum and defining it, but we continue to deny its existence. Instead we have developed systems that rely on constant growth and expansion- this is weirdly un-earthlike where most systems are cycles in equilibrium.

Re: Exile Economics: If Globalisation Fails

#96
post #41

I read the book referenced - Robert Lightizer's No Trade Is Free: Changing Course, Taking on China, and Helping America's Workers - and it was eye-opening, if somewhat misguided. In it, the author blames China's industrial ascent for America's deindustrialization, the hollowing out of cities like Detroit, the fentanyl crisis, the looming challenge to American power in the Pacific, the intimidation of America's allies…

Free trade along with capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any other economic theory/system. It's not perfect but you can't deny it's impact.

Actually you are only looking at one part of the cycle. As subsets of the world prosper, they leave the rest of the world that does not subscribe to their values in the status quo which they label as poverty. The optimal system for any subset of the world depends on the population density it has to serve. Who is impoverished by ‘progress’?
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