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Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

zenobiapay.com

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Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#191

Post by dsr_ »

codedokode wrote: post #187
FabHK wrote: post #167

Seems misleading or at the very least incomplete not to mention that basically only the US has these high credit card interchange fees of 2-3%. EU & UK cap it at 0.3% (0.2% for debit cards), and the rest of the world are closer to EU than US fees, if I understand correctly. The power of the free market.

The problem is not that credit card companies charge large fees. The problem is that they do not allow to pass the fee on the customers. Because of this I don't like European regulation - instead of capping the fees they should just make clauses that not allow merchants to set a card acceptance fees, illegal. The clause that doesn't allow passing fees on the customer is the only thing that makes market non-free. I th…

They absolutely allow you to pass the fee on to the customers... as long as you phrase it as a cash discount from the posted price, instead of a credit card fee on top of the posted price.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#192

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

FabHK wrote: post #167

Seems misleading or at the very least incomplete not to mention that basically only the US has these high credit card interchange fees of 2-3%. EU & UK cap it at 0.3% (0.2% for debit cards), and the rest of the world are closer to EU than US fees, if I understand correctly. The power of the free market.

Rewards drive up transaction fees. https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/who-pays-ge...

"merchants are fee-insensitive, while consumers are rewards-sensitive. In other words, consumers pick credit cards (and, indirectly, networks) based on the goodies they receive, and stores will grudgingly tolerate high fees in order to accept credit cards."

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#193

Post by tonyhart7 »

olliem36 wrote: post #142

Cofounder of Lopay here - we have the same mission: offer free payments to businesses, but we're working with existing networks to do this. QR code payments are particularly hard in countries like US and UK as you're trying to change consumer behaviour. I tried doing this in 2014 and again in 2019 - both failed to gain traction (aside from during COVID). In the UK it's possible to accept card payments for 0% via Lopa…

too bad for you, ever considering expanding in Asia???

in Asia, using QR Code to pay anything in very common in here

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#195

Post by Esophagus4 »

_1tem wrote: post #182
Esophagus4 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea must get shut down pretty quickly by powerful people. There’s no larger conspiracy here. It’s that payments is a commodity now, with shrinking margins and high competition. It’s not worth it for most players to even enter the space, let alone compete tooth and nail for a shrinking share of the pie.

No conspiracy? Is that why the US government also tries to prevent other countries like Brazil from internationalizing their payment systems like Pix? Apple/Google/Amazon/Microsoft could save billions on credit card processing fees by cutting out Visa/Mastercard -- but instead are pressured to accept "special rates" and warned to stay out of the business.

Show me where they’re “warned to stay out of the business”

Surely you must be thinking of mob movies, not the payments space.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#196

Post by reorder9695 »

wat10000 wrote: post #168
olliem36 wrote: post #142

Cofounder of Lopay here - we have the same mission: offer free payments to businesses, but we're working with existing networks to do this. QR code payments are particularly hard in countries like US and UK as you're trying to change consumer behaviour. I tried doing this in 2014 and again in 2019 - both failed to gain traction (aside from during COVID). In the UK it's possible to accept card payments for 0% via Lopa…

QR codes feel like such a step backwards compared to NFC. The UX with current mobile OSes is not good. And if you require an app, or even worse an active data connection, well, I much prefer a quick double-click of my phone’s side button and then putting it near the payment terminal. And I’m really skeptical about security. NFC is vulnerable to relay attacks and QR codes can be secured by using one-time codes or roll…

I also actually _like_ having a physical card that I can use with NFC so that I'm not fecked if my phone dies/breaks or anything. Physical cards to me are a feature.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#197

Post by BenjiWiebe »

dsr_ wrote: post #191
codedokode wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that credit card companies charge large fees. The problem is that they do not allow to pass the fee on the customers. Because of this I don't like European regulation - instead of capping the fees they should just make clauses that not allow merchants to set a card acceptance fees, illegal. The clause that doesn't allow passing fees on the customer is the only thing that makes market non-free. I th…

They absolutely allow you to pass the fee on to the customers... as long as you phrase it as a cash discount from the posted price, instead of a credit card fee on top of the posted price.

In the US it is legal to have card acceptance fees (in most states anyways).

This changed a while back.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#198

Post by HanClinto »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #197
dsr_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely allow you to pass the fee on to the customers... as long as you phrase it as a cash discount from the posted price, instead of a credit card fee on top of the posted price.

In the US it is legal to have card acceptance fees (in most states anyways). This changed a while back.

I'm super super glad this change was made. It genuinely makes me smile every time I go to a merchant and they raise the price when I pull out my credit card -- it's not always convenient for me to carry cash, but this has helped me trend in this direction.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#199

Post by OutOfHere »

ceejayoz wrote: post #96
OutOfHere wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about what I want. It's about what Amazon wants, has said they will institute, and what is already legal. Yes, in a manner of speaking it could be like that, except that stablecoins can be self-custodied, safely be sent to others, and be exchanged for other stablecoins and forms of money, etc. I will not apologize for the cluelessness of other people.

> except that stablecoins can be self-custodied I will not apologize for the cluelessness of other people, like those who think Amazon is gonna make and promote a stablecoin they don't deeply control. Even Tether freezes addresses. Amazon absolutely will. > It's about what Amazon wants, has said they will institute… That applies to a whole bunch of things they eventually gave up on. (Like https://www.theverge.com/202…

The freezes apply only under direction from the federal government. It's not something that the issuer does without this instruction. Tether has no control of its own here, and Amazon won't either.

Amazon is just an example. Dozens are coming.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#200

Post by camillomiller »

fsflover wrote: post #114
camillomiller wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP wasn’t defending VISA policies, they were just realistically describing how taking on CC circuits with this premise is a risky approach that tries to fix a problem potential customers don’t have. What you are saying is in a completely different domain. Personally I think you’re right, but the only way to solve that is regulating the payment giants as a public utility, not picking a fight against a business model t…

A business mode that relies on duopoly is broken and must be regulated.

I literally said it must be regulated. Depends what you mean by broken: for the business owners it’s not broken. For the users? Sure, but they are not stakeholders in the business. They are stakeholders in the society that an excessively successful business model is affecting negatively, hence: regulation.
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