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Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

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Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#521

Post by Karawebnetwork »

PKop wrote: post #516
Stevvo wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU we have different liberties to the US. That doesn't necessarily make Europeans less free. For example, wlthe EU has free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders. None of which are present in the USA. Does that make Americans less free than Europeans? Some would argue so, but I don't see it. The UK however, maybe. Brexit was a real dumb idea.

> free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders What in the world are you talking about? The US has all of this internally. If on the one narrow point you want to claim that EU has open-borders to the rest of the world, no you don't and that's not something that's good to have anyways. Both US and European citizens are fighting their own governments to decrease immigration as polling shows larg…

EU is not a single country. Most if not all countries allows free travel between their own regions, provinces or states.

A better example would be Americans being able to travel freely to USMCA countries.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#523

Post by Xss3 »

falleng0d wrote: post #391
Yokolos wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything coming out of a US government institution today is not trustworthy. Not sure why you'd reference the 2025 report. It's a laugh and a half that the country deploying the national guard in their own capital and putting the capital's police under federal government control is saying Germany is unsafe. The country that's rounding up immigrants and even US citizens to be deported to random countries. Please. Stop…

Both things can be true at the same time, is not laughable at all. Germany can be unsafe and US too to the extent they need national guard to get back control

How can geemany be considered unsafe to the average american? The homicide and violent crime rate in the US is 10x higher than germany, even in the quiet and posh parts of the USA the murder rate is insanely high compared to anywhere in germany.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#525

Post by mattmanser »

liampulles wrote: post #490

Is there a public conversation in European countries about the value of liberty? I don't mean arguments about how liberty can lead to more economic prosperity, I mean how liberty is valuable on its own terms. Without this value, the state can continue to erect legislation in the name of "safety", or any other perceived inequity in society, until you can no longer move. How perverse that English law used to be a basti…

Depends what you mean by liberty. If you mean the sort of American Libertarianism that's popular in tech circles, then no. That's never really been a thing in Europe.

If you mean liberty as in Human Rights, it waxes and wanes. Broadly speaking in the EU in the 90s/00s human rights were improved and expanded. The European human rights courts were strengthened, more laws passed aimed at opposing discrimination. And the Human rights act in the UK was codified into law in 1998, for example.

The pendulum is presently swinging the other way, mainly due to a populist revolt against mass migration to Europe. It also doesn't help that mass surveillance has become so cheap and an easy way for politicians to be 'tough on crime'. Plus American tech treats privacy as a revenue model rather than a right, and that bleeds into policy expectations via lobbying.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#526

Post by tiahura »

pixelpoet wrote: post #422
arethuza wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a far bigger problem with adults having calls in public places with their phones on speaker... should they be "restrained" as well?

IMO it shouldn't even get that far, to questions of how much we should be allowed to ask of others in the name of basic decency; there's been a massive shift from people being self-regulating and trying to be considerate to others, to the conversation changing to something like, "how dare you even speak to me while I'm blasting tiktok loudly, I'm going to look up the letter of the law and see what the maximum disrupt…

The counter-culture movement was quite explicit in their mission to replace traditional social norms and values that led to social order with their opposites.

We shouldn’t be surprised society has fallen.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#527

Post by echoangle »

fastball wrote: post #303

The UK has been a surveillance state for a long time. I've been the victim of property crime 4x in the UK, and 3 of those times the entire thing was caught on multiple CCTVs. But that didn't help me get my stuff back or prosecute criminals. The one time I did get my computer back was when the police raided a stash house (due to an anonymous tip, not surveillance) and found a treasure trove of stolen electronics, whic…

That’s fallacious, they could have a deterring effect and crime would be even worse without cameras.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#528

Post by Stevvo »

CalRobert wrote: post #508
Stevvo wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU we have different liberties to the US. That doesn't necessarily make Europeans less free. For example, wlthe EU has free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders. None of which are present in the USA. Does that make Americans less free than Europeans? Some would argue so, but I don't see it. The UK however, maybe. Brexit was a real dumb idea.

Huh? The US has all of that. You can move freely between states.

Internal movement doesn't count. Only a real hell-hole like North Korea will prevent you moving around in your own country.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#529

Post by mystraline »

pmarreck wrote: post #206
orra wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Must be a truly dangerous place... I don't know if you're awaee, but the number of arrests for terrorism has skyrocketed in recent months, in the UK. Sounds terrifying, until you realise people were arrested as terrorists for holding placards. (That fact is of course terrifying, but in a chilling way).

It still arguably complies with the Paradox of Tolerance. Terrorists (as well as their supporters) are intolerant and non-pluralist. Therefore, for a pluralist society to survive, it must be intolerant of one thing- intolerance.

The paradox of tolerance disappears if you look at tolerance not as a moral standard, but as a social contract.

If someone does not abode by the terms of the contract, they are not covered by it.

In other words, the intolerant are not following the rules of the social contract of mutual tolerance.

Since they have broken the terms of the contract, they are no longer covered by the contract, and their intolerance will NOT be tolerated.

Re: Facial recognition vans to be rolled out across police forces in England

#530

Post by sReinwald »

HKH2 wrote: post #466
sReinwald wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You randomly bring up multiculturalism as a problem to be solved in response to a story about a rude teenager of unknown cultural background, and assume I'm dogwhistling? Please elaborate because all I'm seeing here is projection. But I see we've pivoted from "multiculturalism bad" to pseudo-intellectual theorizing about collective cultural conformity. Very smooth. Different packaging, still trying to sell the same p…

> pseudo-intellectual More name-calling. You still haven't addressed my initial question yet. I'll rephrase it again for you: How do you enforce norms without a dominant culture? Do we even need norms at all?

You're asking about norm enforcement failure, but the story shows norms working fine: expectation communicated, pushback received, de-escalation chosen, situation resolved peacefully, albeit not to the satisfaction of the commenter. The system worked.

The fact that the teenager got defensive is indicative of his understanding of societal expectations and norms. Bending and pushing against norms is what teenagers do, and have done since the dawn of time, regardless of their cultural background and regardless of whether they're navigating the norms of a dominant monoculture or those of a multicultural society.

Your question assumes there was some breakdown that needs fixing, but the only 'problem' was mild inconvenience. When did that become evidence of cultural collapse requiring homogeneity to solve?

You still haven't explained why 'teenager won't use headphones' made you think 'multiculturalism is a problem.' For all you know, this story involved two white Christian Scots from the same cultural background. I'll gladly discuss theories about norm enforcement with you once you've explained why you deemed it necessary to inject race and culture into a story that mentioned neither.

I'm not going to entertain your 'just asking questions' routine until you do.

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