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Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#201

Post by dannersy »

999900000999 wrote: post #169
dmix wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most therapists barely say anything by design, just know when to ask questions or lead you somewhere. So having one always talking in every statement doesn't fit the method. More like a friend you dump on simulator.

[flagged]

So, therapy is useless (as a concept) because America's healthcare system is dogshit?

That statement doesn't make any sense.

Water is still necessary for the body whether I can acquire it or not. Therapy, or any healthcare in general, is still useful whether or not you can afford it.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#202

Post by watwut »

pessimizer wrote: post #191
romanows wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but also "An... entity may not provide... therapy... to the public unless the therapy... services are conducted by... a licensed professional". It's not obvious to me as a non-lawyer whether a chat history could be decided to be "therapy" in a courtroom. If so, this could count as a violation. Probably lots of law around this stuff for lawyers and doctors cornered into giving advice at parties already that might…

For a long time, Mensa couldn't give people IQ scores from the tests they administered because somehow, legally, they would be acting medically. This didn't change until about 10 years ago. Defining non-medical things as medicine and requiring approval by particular private institutions in order to do them is simply corruption. I want everybody to get therapy, but there's no difference in outcomes whether you get it…

If you think human therapists intentionally string patients forever, wait to see what tech people can achieve with gamified therapists literally A/B tested to string people along. Oh, and we will then blame the people for "choosing" to engage with that.

Also, the proposition is dubious, because there are waitlists for therapists. Plus, therapist can actually loose the license while the chatbot cant, no matter how bad the chatbot gets.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#203

Post by ceejayoz »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #199
ceejayoz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is simulating something isn't the same as having something.

Well yes, that's a tautology. But is a simulation demonstrably less effective?

> But is a simulation demonstrably less effective?

Yes?

If you go looking to psychopaths and LLMs for empathy, you're touching a hot stove. At some point, you're going to get burned.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#204

Post by 999900000999 »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #193
thrown-0825 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people shop around for therapists that align with their values anyways. They are really paying $800 / month to have their feelings validated and receive a diagnosis that absolves them from taking ownership over their emotions and actions.

Source for this? Either way it's still demonstrably the most effective treatment for many issues. Sometimes being heard is good enough.

Yeah, but the number one stressor for the vast majority of people is money in one way or another. If you have a spare 9600$ a year to be heard you're doing very well.

Remember, we're talking about a country where people skip insulin.

Back during my second eviction I had a friend listen to me whine on the phone for hours. That's a debt I can never repay, I definitely didn't have health insurance or a spare 800$ a month back then.

Or to flip this around, 800$ a month would be a fantastic treatment for most stressed out lower income people.

I really hate how therapy is promoted as some kind of miracle, when;

A) It's completely inaccessible to those who need it most.

B) Can actually make things significantly worse.

C) You probably just need to do less of whatever your doing.

But if slow down you might get fired. If you get fired you won't be able to afford 800$ a month!

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#205

Post by AlecSchueler »

999900000999 wrote: post #204
AlecSchueler wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source for this? Either way it's still demonstrably the most effective treatment for many issues. Sometimes being heard is good enough.

Yeah, but the number one stressor for the vast majority of people is money in one way or another. If you have a spare 9600$ a year to be heard you're doing very well. Remember, we're talking about a country where people skip insulin. Back during my second eviction I had a friend listen to me whine on the phone for hours. That's a debt I can never repay, I definitely didn't have health insurance or a spare 800$ a mont…

> Remember, we're talking about a country where people skip insulin.

Ah, I'm in the Netherlands. I didn't realise we were only talking about the US. I know the story is about Illinois but I thought the critique of therapy was intended to be broader.

It goes without saying that basic necessities like food and housing come first for health, mental and otherwise, I'm sorry that they're so uncertain in America.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#206

Post by guappa »

hathawsh wrote: post #13

Here is what Illinois says: https://idfpr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/idfpr/news... I get the impression that it is now illegal in Illinois to claim that an AI chatbot can take the place of a licensed therapist or counselor. That doesn't mean people can't do what they want with AI. It only means that counseling services can't offer AI as a cheaper replacement for a real person. Am I wrong? This sounds good to…

But didn't trump make it illegal to make laws to limit the use of ai?

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#207

Post by guappa »

awesomeusername wrote: post #81
linotype wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if at some point an AI is developed that’s a better therapist AND it’s cheaper?

I'm probably in the minority here, but for me it's a foregone conclusion that it will become a better therapist, doctor, architect, etc. Instead of the rich getting access to the best professionals, it will level the playing field. The average low level lawyer, doctor, etc are not great. How nice if everyone got top level help.

I wish I was so naive… but since AI is entirely in the hands of people with money… why would that possibly happen?

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#208

Post by guappa »

SoftTalker wrote: post #137
olalonde wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's good about reducing options available for therapy? If the issue is misrepresentation, there are already laws that cover this.

For human therapists, what’s good is that it preserves their ability to charge high fees because the demand for therapists far outstrips the supply. Who lobbied for this law anyway?

And for human patients it makes sure their sensitive private information isn't entirely in the hands of some megacorp which will harvest it to use it and profit from it in some unethical way.

Re: Illinois limits the use of AI in therapy and psychotherapy

#209

Post by guappa »

kylecazar wrote: post #60

"One news report found an AI-powered therapist chatbot recommended “a small hit of meth to get through this week” to a fictional former addict." Not at all surprising. I don't understand why seemingly bright people think this is a good idea, despite knowing the mechanism behind language models. Hopefully more states follow, because it shouldn't be formally legal in provider settings. Informally, people will continue…

Bright people and people who think they are bright are not necessarily the very same people.
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